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Thread: Fusion Disconnected AGAIN!!!!!

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    Fusion Disconnected AGAIN!!!!!

    Woke up today to find that once again Fusion was disconnected. Having to restart my controller, again, to get this back is just getting annoying. The entire purpose of Fusion is to have it available 24/7/365, not 22/6/354. I turned off my port forwarding on my firewall because Fusion solves all of this making it easier for the home user. Sorry but aside from programming my lights, this has become pointless.

    If i had been traveling and lost access to fusion because of this I would be livid. If the system isn't ready for prime time, then call it what it is, A BETA. I see from the boards that this isn't just me but tons of people are experiencing the same thing. Neptune please resolve the issue or we as consumers will resolve it for you by going elsewhere.

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    Frequent Visitor BertL's Avatar
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    Sorry for the trouble you're having.

    Realize though, this is a user forum not consistently moderated by Neptune. Their viewing of any particular post like yours may or may not happen. It would be best when you're not traveling to open a ticket with Support and get them directly involved.
    Bert

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    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    lefkonj - by any chance was there a power disruption at your home prior to the Fusion disconnect?

    Did your controller show 'Fusion OK' but Fusion showed 'Disconnected'?
    Al

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    There were no power issues and Fusion Ok was being displayed. After a reset i received the alarm of Alarm Statement: If pH < 8.00 Then ON (8.26) which is odd because my pH was 8.26. I get that support is available but as everyone else has been seeing the constant disconnects are not helpful at all. If the system is going to do this then it isn't worth it. I will keep it to setup my lights as the graph is nice but not required.

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    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    Do you have any sort of backup power to your controller - a UPS and a 12v transformer perhaps?
    Al

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    Why would a UPS and 12V transformer cause the system to stop talking to Fusion, yet work 100% internally.

  7. #7
    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    Do you have any sort of backup power to your controller
    Is that a yes or a no?
    Al

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    Lefkonj, the best thing you can do is submit a ticket to NS when the issue is occurring. Give them a chance to figure out what's going on with your Apex.

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    Auquamanic, I have 3 apex's at my house all on the same network all connected to fusion. Randomly I will have one or two disconnect from fusion while the others remain fine. Connect locally and it says Fusion OK. So the device is up. The network is up and other apex's are communicating. The problem is totally Neptune's. To me there is some sort of server affinity issue with the cloud that resetting the Apex fixes. Maybe that the device thinks "Fusion OK" and does not try to re-initiate the session. But the problem is definitely Neptune's. If I go on vacation and this happens, I have lost access to the controller. This needs to be fixed. It's not reliable enough. Fusion is awesome otherwise.

  10. #10
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    Randomly I will have one or two disconnect from fusion while the others remain fine.
    So the question is, why? I don't think it's random. Something is causing it.

    lefkonj - as Joboo suggests, next time it happens, don't restart your controller. Leave it where the controller thinks Fusion is OK but Fusion thinks it's disconnected. Then contact support. They'll have you run a diagnostic and try to pin this down.
    Al

    I do not work for Neptune. Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums!
    For Neptune support send an email (don't call) to: [email protected] .
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquamanic View Post
    So the question is, why? I don't think it's random. Something is causing it.

    lefkonj - as Joboo suggests, next time it happens, don't restart your controller. Leave it where the controller thinks Fusion is OK but Fusion thinks it's disconnected. Then contact support. They'll have you run a diagnostic and try to pin this down.
    Yes, something is causing this. It's over the internet. There could be a million things causing it. But the underlying problem is that the Apex will not re-initiate communications on it's own. It has to be reset either through display or local web interface to get it to do that. The Apex should have some sort of a watchdog for this and restart the Fusion communications. Or it could just do it every X number of minutes regardless. This really should be a trivial fix in the firmware. The problem is everybody is quick to write it off as the user has a bad network. It should not matter. The Internet is never guaranteed communications. When developing applications and firmware that use the Internet, you have to assume that it will fail and account for it somehow. The Apex should not require a forced reset to restart Fusion communications. It should do it on it's own.

    What I am trying to say is that we need to get someone to focus on why it requires a reset to re-establish Fusion Communications, not on why there are network issues. Network issues will always be there.

  12. #12
    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    Gainesville I don't know where you're coming from. I never said lefkonj's issue was a bad network or a network issue of any kind. And I AM trying to focus on the problem by asking some pointed questions - and there's a reason for those specific questions.
    Al

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    For Neptune support send an email (don't call) to: [email protected] .
    Manuals for all products including the
    Comprehensive Reference Manual can be found here.

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    Fusion Disconnected AGAIN!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by aquamanic View Post
    Gainesville I don't know where you're coming from. I never said lefkonj's issue was a bad network or a network issue of any kind. And I AM trying to focus on the problem by asking some pointed questions - and there's a reason for those specific questions.
    I think this is a fair statement by Gainesville. In many cases it's implied by others that there must be something wrong with the end user's network, router, DNS, etc. Even the new diagnostic tool provided within fusion seems to be network focused. Some of this is just standard troubleshooting 101 required to weed out trivial issues. Although I can see why people would feel this way.

    However, to be fair to NS, you really need to submit a ticket and give them a chance. Posting your displeasure on this forum(which I'm guilty of doing as well) will not get their attention. The best way to hold a company accountable for their products is to follow the process of engagement. In this case...open a ticket.
    Last edited by Joboo; 07-29-2014 at 19:10. Reason: add

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    Quote Originally Posted by aquamanic View Post
    Gainesville I don't know where you're coming from. I never said lefkonj's issue was a bad network or a network issue of any kind. And I AM trying to focus on the problem by asking some pointed questions - and there's a reason for those specific questions.
    Sorry Aquamanic, if you read his post at the beginning, he says he is frustrated by having to reset the Apex to get it working again. This is the problem that we are all having. If we did not have to do that, there would be no problem. I understand that you are probably trying to figure out what is causing the dropped communication. And I am not trying to be-little that. But every time I read one of these threads, they take the same direction. I just upgraded to the latest firmware yesterday hoping that this would be fixed. And it happened again today. You asked me a question about my post and I responded. I did not intend it to be offensive. If it was, I very sincerely apologize. I was just trying to explain my point and perhaps contribute to the end of this problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joboo View Post
    I think this is a fair statement by Gainesville. In many cases it's implied by others that there must be something wrong with the end user's network, router, DNS, etc. Even the new diagnostic tool provided within fusion seems to be network focused. Some of this is just standard troubleshooting 101 required to weed out trivial issues. Although I can see why people would feel this way.

    However, to be fair to NS, you really need to submit a ticket and give them a chance. Posting your displeasure on this forum(which I'm guilty of doing as well) will not get their attention. The best way to hold a company accountable for their products is to follow the process of engagement. In this case...open a ticket.
    I already submitted a ticket this morning. I offered full access to my devices and my time to help them resolve this. Unlike my other customer service issues, I got no response today. I have no ax to grind. I love my apex's and Fusion is like crack to me. This forum is fantastic. But this has been an on going problem. I believe the reason for that, is that it is being mistreated as a user competence, networking or environmental issue. I am just trying to point in another direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GainesvilleReef View Post
    I already submitted a ticket this morning. I offered full access to my devices and my time to help them resolve this. Unlike my other customer service issues, I got no response today. I have no ax to grind. I love my apex's and Fusion is like crack to me. This forum is fantastic. But this has been an on going problem. I believe the reason for that, is that it is being mistreated as a user competence, networking or environmental issue. I am just trying to point in another direction.
    Give them 24 hrs to respond. I'm sure you'll here back from them. In the meantime you may want to use the smartphone app/classic dashboard remotely so that when the disconnect issue occurs in fusion you can leave it as is until NS takes a look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joboo View Post
    Give them 24 hrs to respond. I'm sure you'll here back from them. In the meantime you may want to use the smartphone app/classic dashboard remotely so that when the disconnect issue occurs in fusion you can leave it as is until NS takes a look.
    I have no complaints about customer service. In my opinion Neptune has the best customer service. They have just always been incredibly lightning fast in the past. To me it was strange. That's how good they are.

    Next time it happens I will leave it as is and offer it to Neptune support.

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    I just moved over to Fusion this weekend - love it so far. Finished up last night configuring my web cams (last on the list). Tried to jump on this morning from an external network to double check all my configs were good from the outside and I got that Fusion is disconnected too. All good on my network side. I can control and access my Apex controller from the old school interface - just no Fusion connection. Definitely something going on the NS side of things that they need to figure out.

    So a reboot of the controller is what I need to do to reestablish the Fusion connection until NS figures out what is going on?

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    Wow interesting responses so far. I will open a case with Neptune the next time it happens, my concern is that Next Time will be while I am away for a few days, then what. My assumption is that there is something 'sticky' in the connection between controllers and fusion, so while servers are going offline for maintenance this stickiness is lost and causes the problem. What would be a better solution than resetting the controller would be a 'Re-estabalish Fusion' selection. This way it can easily be accomplished. Just like if i have a VPN connection I can restart the VPN but don't have to restart the entire computer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lefkonj View Post
    Wow interesting responses so far. I will open a case with Neptune the next time it happens, my concern is that Next Time will be while I am away for a few days, then what. My assumption is that there is something 'sticky' in the connection between controllers and fusion, so while servers are going offline for maintenance this stickiness is lost and causes the problem. What would be a better solution than resetting the controller would be a 'Re-estabalish Fusion' selection. This way it can easily be accomplished. Just like if i have a VPN connection I can restart the VPN but don't have to restart the entire computer.
    I'll open a case with them today since mine is currently down and will be down since I won't be home until later tonight.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefkonj View Post
    ...my concern is that Next Time will be while I am away for a few days, then what.
    Suggest you turn port forwarding back on and test it before you leave. I don't consider Fusion the only way for me to try and connect to my Apex when the chips are down, and would never put all my apples in that basket given a choice.

    At least for me, having the original native interface available both remotely and locally (without involving my ISP), pre-setup on my iPhone, iPad, iMac, and backup Windows PC on a shelf is invaluable. Allowing classic access methods to continue in parallel while Fusion grows into the future is one of the best design decisions Neptune made. I'd also love to eliminate more complexity in my life, but as good as Fusion is out of the blocks, it has some things that need improving like connectivity for at least some number of users, and I'm sure it will get there. Since the beta, I easily drop back to the classic interface when Fusion connectivity is giving me fits, and I have everything necessary to monitor and control my tank. I will be one of the last ones kicking and screaming to remove the native network interface to my Apex. IMHO, no matter what is done with today's web and cloud solutions by anyone, even when using so-called redundant web hosting, there will always be more possible points of failure than native controller access -- and none are in user control. Having supported and been responsible for 7x24 business critical systems for most of my life, I consider my tank "critical" and give it as much of the same consideration I can. As such, I'm a big one for maintaining a Plan B that is occasionally tested (for this discussion, native access including all the challenging port forwarding gobbly-gook). I'm likely in the minority with my need for contingency plans -- so be that -- Fusion on its own is great for a growing majority, but for those like me that want to take advantage of what I consider a huge marketing advantage Neptune has over most of their growing competition, native/classic access remains an extraordinary backup solution and viable alternative.
    Bert

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    Quote Originally Posted by BertL View Post
    Suggest you turn port forwarding back on and test it before you leave. I don't consider Fusion the only way for me to try and connect to my Apex when the chips are down, and would never put all my apples in that basket given a choice.

    At least for me, having the original native interface available both remotely and locally (without involving my ISP), pre-setup on my iPhone, iPad, iMac, and backup Windows PC on a shelf is invaluable.
    Bert - I completely agree with you and that's how I planned to run, but what is really disturbing is that I've now lost all communication with my Apex. Fusion worked last night around 11:00pm EDT. Fusion stopped connecting sometime this morning (tried around 8:30am EDT), but I could still connect via port forwarding (PC & iPhone) AND i know it accepted commands (turned sump light on & off). Sometime between 9:52am EDT and 11:45am EDT I lost my connection via port forwarding. However, I can still access my web IP cam via port forwarding and from what I can see it tells me my Apex is not running. Everything appears to be in Fallback mode - return pumps going, but lights are not on. This is a lot bigger of an issue now that this problem brings down the Apex.

    I'm going to open a ticket, but there's probably not much I/they can do since I'm physically not there to power cycle the controller.

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    Just got contacted by support. Got the generic lan trouble shooting email and sent back all the information they requested. Got to go through the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ Ocean View Post
    Bert - I completely agree with you and that's how I planned to run, but what is really disturbing is that I've now lost all communication with my Apex. Fusion worked last night around 11:00pm EDT. Fusion stopped connecting sometime this morning (tried around 8:30am EDT), but I could still connect via port forwarding (PC & iPhone) AND i know it accepted commands (turned sump light on & off). Sometime between 9:52am EDT and 11:45am EDT I lost my connection via port forwarding. However, I can still access my web IP cam via port forwarding and from what I can see it tells me my Apex is not running. Everything appears to be in Fallback mode - return pumps going, but lights are not on. This is a lot bigger of an issue now that this problem brings down the Apex.

    I'm going to open a ticket, but there's probably not much I/they can do since I'm physically not there to power cycle the controller.
    Yes, agree -- a controller that is all the way down is a big issue -- I didn't pick up that was the case with lefkonj that I sort of directed my suggestion at, but may have missed something in the thread. I had similar issue months ago while attempting to update outlets when I was traveling, lost connection, and came home to a controller that didn't reboot. Have updated firmware levels several times since and "knock on wood", I've not had the "dead controller" problem since.

    Hope your situation is resolved quickly and your tank is A-OK upon your return home.
    Bert

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    Quote Originally Posted by BertL View Post
    Suggest you turn port forwarding back on and test it before you leave. I don't consider Fusion the only way for me to try and connect to my Apex when the chips are down, and would never put all my apples in that basket given a choice.

    At least for me, having the original native interface available both remotely and locally (without involving my ISP), pre-setup on my iPhone, iPad, iMac, and backup Windows PC on a shelf is invaluable. Allowing classic access methods to continue in parallel while Fusion grows into the future is one of the best design decisions Neptune made. I'd also love to eliminate more complexity in my life, but as good as Fusion is out of the blocks, it has some things that need improving like connectivity for at least some number of users, and I'm sure it will get there. Since the beta, I easily drop back to the classic interface when Fusion connectivity is giving me fits, and I have everything necessary to monitor and control my tank. I will be one of the last ones kicking and screaming to remove the native network interface to my Apex. IMHO, no matter what is done with today's web and cloud solutions by anyone, even when using so-called redundant web hosting, there will always be more possible points of failure than native controller access -- and none are in user control. Having supported and been responsible for 7x24 business critical systems for most of my life, I consider my tank "critical" and give it as much of the same consideration I can. As such, I'm a big one for maintaining a Plan B that is occasionally tested (for this discussion, native access including all the challenging port forwarding gobbly-gook). I'm likely in the minority with my need for contingency plans -- so be that -- Fusion on its own is great for a growing majority, but for those like me that want to take advantage of what I consider a huge marketing advantage Neptune has over most of their growing competition, native/classic access remains an extraordinary backup solution and viable alternative.
    Bert. You are not alone in your thinking......I have exactly the same train of thought. Fusion is fun and is getting better all the time, but if the classic/native interface/functions ever cease to exist or get supported I would begin my search for another solution to protect my animals.

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