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Thread: Conductivity Probe Reading Off/Wrong

  1. #1
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    Conductivity Probe Reading Off/Wrong

    Help. I just calibrated new conductivity probe. (No temp probe so comp set at 0.0). Waited for dry measurement to settle. Selected matching solution type. Added probe to solution and waited for measurement to settle. Conductivity measures around 23... Shouldn't it be around 35 for salinity of 1.026 (which is what my tank measures with calibrated refractometer).
    This is the second time I have calibrated. Both times same result. BYW, I rinsed the probe with Ro/Di water and allowed to dry overnight between attempts.
    What's wrong?
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Try to put the probe in the calibration solution and see if it measures 35 then. Also, take a cup of your tank water and put the probe in that. It's possible that there is stray voltage in your tank which will affect the reading.

  3. #3
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    I'm not sure if the calibration solution is designed to measure 35. It's not saltwater but a solution from Neptune designed for a certain conductivity (53000uSiemens/cm). Not sure how this maps to the conductivity measured during or after calibration.
    I have a connection/probe in my sump for stray voltages. I did try your suggestion with the separate cup of saltwater and no real difference.
    During the day, I did notice that the reading is not stable. It kind of floats around ranging from 23-29 (changing a few tenths every 5-10 minutes). Seems odd...

  4. #4
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    Yes, a 53mS solution should definitely show as 35PPT. It's simply a mathematical calculation. The probe reads conductivity and based on that calculates the PPT value. 53mS equates to 35PPT.

    The swing definitely seems unusual though. One thing that can make a difference is bubbles on the probe... Are there a lot of bubbles in the sump where the probe is placed? If you're seeing a lot of movement like that then I might think that bubbles are building up on the probe may be affecting it.

  5. #5
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reefer1 View Post
    I'm not sure if the calibration solution is designed to measure 35. It's not saltwater but a solution from Neptune designed for a certain conductivity (53000uSiemens/cm). Not sure how this maps to the conductivity measured during or after calibration.
    The Neptune calibration fluid can also be used to check the calibration and function of the conductivity probe. The reading should be 53 if your conductivity probe port is set to High range (display in mS) or ~35 if your probe is set to Salinity range (display in ppt)
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  6. #6
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    Just placed the probe in the calibration fluid. It's certainly higher now. It started at 36.5 and it's been slowly climbing. After 5 minutes it's 37.7
    Any ideas?

  7. #7
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    The fact that it keeps changing definitely concerns me a bit... it shouldn't take 5 minutes to settle down. One other potential problem is interference from other electrical cords that run near the conductivity probe's cord. If the probe's cord is near any other cords you might want to try to reroute it and see if that makes a difference. I suppose it's also possible that the fluid and/or probe's temperature was changing during that time, but 1 point seems like a lot for a few degrees.

    If moving the cord doesn't make a difference, then I'd try this... put the solution (with the probe in it) in the sump or the tank so it can equalize with your water's temperature. (I dump the solution into a little ziplock baggie to make this a bit easier). Give it 10 minutes or so for the temps to equalize and see if the reading stabilizes.

    If it still doesn't stabilize, then call support because it sounds like it might be a bad probe. If it does seem to stabilize, then go ahead and recalibrate. Rinse the probe with purified water and shake it off and blow into it to get as much water out as possible for the dry measurement. Leave the solution in your water when you calibrate with the solution because it's especially important to match your water temp during calibration since you're not doing temperature compensation. Then transfer the probe back into your water and see how that does.

  8. #8
    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    Reefer - how old is this probe? My experience is they take a week or so to settle in before they'll reliably calibrate.
    Al

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  9. #9
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    The probe is brand new. Just set it up.
    There are a lot of cords nearby. I'll try to reroute it to see if there is a difference. Thanks

  10. #10
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    Just like Al said you need to soak the probe in the sump for a couple weeks before calibrating or you will get frustrated as the values have a tendency to bounce around in this pre-break-in period and wont hold the calibration...

    Hope this helps.
    Jon

  11. #11
    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    I don't think it's an interference problem. Just let the probe sit in the tank this week. Next weekend try to calibrate it.
    Al

    I do not work for Neptune. Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums!
    For Neptune support send an email (don't call) to: [email protected] .
    Manuals for all products including the
    Comprehensive Reference Manual can be found here.

  12. #12
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    Well, the probe has been in the sump for about two weeks now. It's rock solid from about 7pm to 7am at 37. But it then bounces around for the other 12 hours. During this period it can get as low as 22. This cycle repeats every day.
    By coincidence, my skimmer is off when the reading is stable. The probe is in the first chamber where the water drains through a sock. The skimmer is after a couple of baffles right before the return pump.
    Any ideas?
    Thanks!

  13. #13
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Confirm that there is a direct correlation by turning off the skimmer for a half hour or so during its normal on period.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  14. #14
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    If you can confirm that it's the skimmer then that's certainly part of the battle. The conductivity probe can be interfered with in two ways. It's possible that the wire for the conductivity probe is running close to the power cord for the skimmer and that's causing the interference. If that's the case, then reroute the power cord for the skimmer and/or the wire for the conductivity probe and see if that helps.

    If they are not near each other than it could be that the skimmer pump is leaking voltage into the tank. You can test for this by putting the probe in a cup of tank water with the skimmer running. Don't move the probe far from where it is now, just put it in a cup of tank water, but out of the tank. If it stays stable even with the skimmer running then it's likely a voltage leak from the skimmer pump.

  15. #15
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    Just turned off the skimmer and the conductivity measurement shot up immediately. It's now stable. I have a ground probe in the sump so it must be some type of interference. I will look to separate the two cables tomorrow and let you know.
    Thanks!

  16. #16
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    Oh Yes. It's definitely interference. I confirmed this by playing around with the skimmer power (turning on/off) and the routing of the conductivity probe cord.
    Now, I just need to route the conductivity probe cable to avoid this problem.
    Thanks!

  17. #17
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    Well, I guess that's reasonably good news... Of the two problems it's probably the easiest to solve. If you do need to cross the cords, try to do it at a right angle as there shouldn't be much interference that way. If they travel together parallel to each other that's when you can have problems.

  18. #18
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    Help! Well, I finally know the source of the interference. I just can't seem to solve the problem though.
    I t seems that when the T5 lights are on - the interference starts. The timing is exact. My T5 lights have a dimmable ballast which are controlled by variable V1/V2 lines out of the Apex Base Unit. I tried connecting the power from the energy bar to the Apex base unit using different ports but no luck. (The different modules were daisy-chained but now every module is connected straight to the energy bar.) I literally have no wires crossing. So it must be internal.
    Has anyone seen this problem before?
    What should I do next?
    Any ideas to try?
    Thanks!

  19. #19
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    Conductivity Probe Reading Off/Wrong

    Wires crossing typically isn't a problem, but wires traveling in parallel next to each other. I'm assuming that when you say you have no wires crossing that you mean that the wires aren't near each other at all, but I just wanted to make sure.

    Also, typically the only wire you would need to worry about interference on is the cord for the conductivity probe. The aqua bus cables and other probe wires shouldn't have a problem with interference. Make sure the conductivity probe wire is as far away from any other electronics (especially your ballast and lights) as possible.

    How close are the PM2, the probe, and the cord to your ballasts and your lights? Maybe try to separate them as much as possible and see if that makes a difference. Just stretch the probe cord straight out in front of the tank and put the probe in a cup of water. If that fixes it, then bring it closer and closer and see how close you can get before you have a problem.

    Is the T5 ballast plugged into the EB8? Since you're controlling it with the var ports you might not need it plugged in there. Possibly try plugging it into another outlet, preferably on a different circuit than the eb8 and see if that helps... Maybe temporarily even run an extension cord to another room just to see if it makes a difference or not.

    Also, I know I mentioned it before, but I'm not sure if you tried this or not. Put the conductivity probe in a cup of water outside of the tank to verify that it's not stray voltage in the tank causing the interference. Just having a grounding probe in the tank does not rule this out.

  20. #20
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    Here is the latest. I stretched out the cords from the conductivity module. The cord for the conductivity probe does not cross or come near any other wire. The conductivity probe is submerged in a cup of tank water far from my reef tank. I can't imagine any EM coupling affecting the probe, the line from the probe to the module, or the module. The reading still moves and is way off from where it is when the T5 lights are off.
    The T5 ballasts are plugged into the Apex energy bar. The associated outlet is turned off when the lights aren't on. This is the only way to get them to turn off.
    Any other ideas? This is really frustrating...
    Thanks

  21. #21
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    You say T5 ballasts. Do you have more than one? Try them one at a time to see if it's possible that the interference is only coming from one ballast. Also, try plugging the ballasts into another outlet that's not on the eb8. Like I said above, ideally on another circuit. You might want to use an extension cord to plug them in in another room. If plugging them into another circuit helps then they do sell filters that you may be able to use to reduce or eliminate the interference, but if it's not coming through the power connection then that won't help.

  22. #22
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    Here's another update. I connected the power for the T5 ballasts through a 40 ft extension cord to an outlet on another circuit breaker. This did not correct the salinity probe measurement. It's still much lower than it should be and it still moves. In fact, it somewhat tracks opposite V1/V2 variable levels of the Apex base unit. As the V1/V2 levels decrease, the conductivity measurement increases. It sure looks like there is some internal interaction between the Apex base unit and how it generates the V1/V2 levels back through the Apex energy bar and the Conductivity module (also powered by the Apex energy bar).
    Any thoughts or ideas?
    Thanks

  23. #23
    Frequent Visitor joenla's Avatar
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    I also have this same problem. I've read through these threads and did everything suggested but no matter what I do my cond probe (I have it set to salinity) reads anywhere from 24.5 to 32.4 over the period of a day. I've calibrated it MANY times. It worked great for a year but then this started up about 3 months ago so I bought a new probe (bc 1st one was year old) however the second one did the same thing. I've spoken to Neptune several times and they had me do this and that but nothing worked. I gave up and just ignore the readings now...... kind of hoped an update to the firmware would correct it but I've had 2 or 3 updates since then and no change. now it just sits there and has become a waste of time and money. disappointed but not sure what else to do...

    Date TempMT pH Amp_3 Amp_6 Salt Amp_11 Amp_15
    8/31/2015 0:00 80.7 8.26 3.7 0.7 31.1 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 0:10 80.7 8.27 3.7 0.8 30.8 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 0:20 80.8 8.26 3.1 0.7 24.5 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 0:30 80.8 8.26 3.5 0.7 24.9 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 0:40 80.8 8.26 3.7 0.8 25 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 0:50 80.9 8.26 3.6 0.8 26 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 1:00 80.9 8.26 3.1 0.7 26.6 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 1:10 80.9 8.26 3.4 0.8 25.7 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 1:20 81 8.26 3.1 0.8 24.9 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 1:30 81 8.24 3.5 0.7 24.9 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 1:40 81 8.24 3.4 0.7 27.4 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 1:50 81 8.24 3.6 0.8 29.3 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 2:00 81.1 8.24 3.3 0.8 29.6 6.2 0.3
    8/31/2015 2:10 80.8 8.23 3.1 0.6 29.6 5.4 0.3
    8/31/2015 2:20 80.5 8.23 3.1 0.8 29.6 6.5 0
    8/31/2015 2:30 80.2 8.23 3.3 0.7 31.3 6.5 0
    8/31/2015 2:40 80 8.23 3.2 0.7 31 5.7 0
    8/31/2015 2:50 79.8 8.23 3.6 0.8 31.8 6.5 0
    8/31/2015 3:00 79.5 8.23 3.4 0.8 32.2 0 0
    8/31/2015 3:10 79.6 8.23 3.5 0.8 32.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 3:20 79.6 8.22 3.6 0.8 32.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 3:30 79.7 8.22 3.5 0.8 32.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 3:40 79.7 8.22 2.8 0.8 32.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 3:50 79.7 8.22 3.6 0.9 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 4:00 79.8 8.22 3.6 0.9 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 4:10 79.8 8.22 3.6 0.7 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 4:20 79.9 8.22 3.6 0.8 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 4:30 79.9 8.22 3.1 0.8 32.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 4:40 79.9 8.22 3.4 0.8 32.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 4:50 80 8.22 3.5 0.8 32.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 5:00 80 8.22 3.4 0.7 32 0 0
    8/31/2015 5:10 80.1 8.21 3.4 0.7 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 5:20 80.1 8.21 3.4 0.7 31.6 0 0
    8/31/2015 5:30 80.1 8.21 3.3 0.7 31.5 0 0
    8/31/2015 5:40 80.1 8.21 3.2 0.7 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 5:50 80.2 8.21 3.4 0.8 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 6:00 80.2 8.21 3 0.7 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 6:10 80.3 8.21 3.4 0.8 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 6:20 80.3 8.2 3.1 0.8 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 6:30 80.3 8.2 3.1 0.8 31.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 6:40 80.3 8.2 3.1 0.8 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 6:50 80.4 8.2 3.4 0.8 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 7:00 80.4 8.19 3.5 0.8 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 7:10 80.4 8.19 3.5 0.8 31.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 7:20 80.5 8.19 3 0.7 30.6 0 0
    8/31/2015 7:30 80.5 8.19 3.3 0.8 29.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 7:40 80.5 8.19 3.4 0.7 29.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 7:50 80.6 8.18 3.5 0.6 29.7 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 8:00 80.6 8.18 3.5 0.7 29.8 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 8:10 80.6 8.19 3.2 0.8 28.7 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 8:20 80.7 8.19 3.1 0.8 29.3 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 8:30 80.7 8.19 3.4 0.8 29.1 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 8:40 80.7 8.18 3.4 0.8 28.8 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 8:50 80.8 8.19 3.1 0.8 28.8 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 9:00 80.8 8.19 3.1 0.7 29.1 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 9:10 80.8 8.19 3.1 0.7 29.1 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 9:20 80.9 8.19 3.6 0.9 29.4 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 9:30 80.9 8.18 3.1 0.8 29.5 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 9:40 80.9 8.19 3.2 0.8 29.6 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 9:50 81 8.18 3.3 0.7 25 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 10:00 80.9 8.18 3.3 0.8 26.3 6 0.4
    8/31/2015 10:10 80.6 8.18 3.1 0.7 26.1 5.4 0.3
    8/31/2015 10:20 80.4 8.19 3.4 0.7 27.9 6.5 0
    8/31/2015 10:30 80.2 8.19 3.6 0.6 27.4 6.5 0
    8/31/2015 10:40 80 8.19 3.2 0.7 27.8 6.2 0
    8/31/2015 10:50 79.7 8.2 4 0.7 28.1 5.8 0
    8/31/2015 11:00 79.5 8.2 4 0.7 27.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 11:10 79.6 8.2 3.7 0.8 28.8 0 0
    8/31/2015 11:20 79.7 8.2 3.6 0.7 29.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 11:30 79.7 8.2 3 0.8 28 0 0
    8/31/2015 11:40 79.8 8.2 3.3 0.8 29.6 0 0
    8/31/2015 11:50 79.8 8.2 3.9 0.9 29.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 12:00 79.9 8.21 3.6 0.8 28.6 0 0
    8/31/2015 12:10 79.9 8.22 3.8 0.8 30.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 12:20 80 8.22 4.2 0.8 29.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 12:30 80.1 8.23 4 0.8 28.8 0 0
    8/31/2015 12:40 80.1 8.23 4.5 0.7 29.9 0 0
    8/31/2015 12:50 80.2 8.23 4.3 0.7 30.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 13:00 80.2 8.24 3.9 0.8 29.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 13:10 80.3 8.24 3.7 0.7 29.6 0 0
    8/31/2015 13:20 80.4 8.24 3.4 0.7 29.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 13:30 80.4 8.24 4.2 0.8 29.6 0 0
    8/31/2015 13:40 80.5 8.25 4.2 0.6 29.7 0 0
    8/31/2015 13:50 80.5 8.25 3.9 0.7 31.1 0 0
    8/31/2015 14:00 80.6 8.25 4.2 0.7 31.2 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 14:10 80.6 8.25 4.2 0.5 30.1 0 0.3
    8/31/2015 14:20 80.7 8.26 4.4 0.7 30.8 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 14:30 80.7 8.26 3.6 0.7 30.8 0 0.3
    8/31/2015 14:40 80.8 8.26 4.3 0.7 31.5 0 0.5
    8/31/2015 14:50 80.8 8.26 3.8 0.7 31.3 0 0.3
    8/31/2015 15:00 80.9 8.26 3.4 0.7 31.1 0 0.4
    8/31/2015 15:10 80.9 8.27 4 0.6 31.9 0 0.3
    8/31/2015 15:20 81 8.27 3.4 0.6 31.6 0 0.3
    8/31/2015 15:30 81 8.28 4 0.7 31.3 6.4 0.3
    8/31/2015 15:40 80.8 8.28 3.9 0.6 31.2 5.4 0.3
    8/31/2015 15:50 80.5 8.28 4.3 0.6 31.8 5.4 0.3
    8/31/2015 16:00 80.3 8.29 4.4 0.7 30.9 6.1 0
    8/31/2015 16:10 80.1 8.3 4 0.6 30.8 6.6 0
    8/31/2015 16:20 79.8 8.3 4.2 0.7 32.2 6.2 0
    8/31/2015 16:30 79.6 8.3 4 0.6 32.2 6.3 0
    8/31/2015 16:40 79.6 8.3 4 0.7 32.2 0 0
    8/31/2015 16:50 79.6 8.3 4 0.8 32.2 0 0
    8/31/2015 17:00 79.7 8.3 3.5 0.8 32.2 0 0
    8/31/2015 17:10 79.7 8.3 4.1 0.8 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 17:20 79.8 8.3 3.9 0.6 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 17:30 79.8 8.3 3.7 0.8 32.3 0 0
    8/31/2015 17:40 79.9 8.3 3.6 0.8 32.2 0 0
    8/31/2015 17:50 79.9 8.3 3.5 0.8 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 18:00 79.9 8.3 3.5 0.8 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 18:10 80 8.3 3.6 0.8 32.2 0 0
    8/31/2015 18:20 80 8.3 4 0.9 32.2 0 0
    8/31/2015 18:30 80 8.3 3.4 0.8 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 18:40 80.1 8.3 3.4 0.8 32.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 18:50 80.1 8.3 3.7 0.7 30.6 0 0
    8/31/2015 19:00 80.2 8.3 3.9 0.8 26.5 0 0
    8/31/2015 19:10 80.2 8.3 3.1 0.7 28.5 0 0
    8/31/2015 19:20 80.3 8.3 3.3 0.9 28.4 0 0
    8/31/2015 19:30 80.3 8.3 3.7 0.8 28.1 0 0
    8/31/2015 19:40 80.4 8.3 3.4 0.7 27.6 0 0

  24. #24
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    Hi Joenla,
    I believe that the T5 dimmable ballasts are the root cause of my problem. I plan to replace the 2-pronged power cord with a 3-pronged version. Hopefully I get to it this weekend so I can check it out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
    It seems that the conductivity probe is really sensitive. Check for floating ground connections (2-pronged equipment that connects to the Apex energy bar).

  25. #25
    Frequent Visitor joenla's Avatar
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    I'll look it over tonight. I'll let you know if it helps. thanks

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