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Thread: Neptune Return Pump

  1. #51
    Frequent Visitor Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by italquam View Post
    This is great news , are they available yet?? Are they being beta tested??

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    According to NEPTUNE (Terence), the FMM will come out first and then the COR.
    So look out for the FMM first.

  2. #52
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    Will the Cor have programmable minimum and maximum flow settings like the Vectra.

    I want a new DC pump for my nano tank and fine tuning the maximum is really important so I dont overflow the display with these 1000+ gph capable pums. DC pumps have 3-5 preset speeds and setting it to one might be too high or too low. My tank losses a lot of water due to back siphoning when the pump shuts off. All the other pumps that do feed modes turn the pump off where as the Vectra slowly pumps enough water to keep the pipe full and stop that from happening. Are features like this going to be on COR or other cool features?

  3. #53
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    Any update on the COR? I too have been waiting for EcoTech to Stop being dumb, but don't see that happening.

  4. #54
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    What is an FMM?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHG View Post
    What is an FMM?
    Fluid monitoring module.

  6. #56
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    I won't get too excited about the COR unless you have a small tank. According to Neptune it will be rated at 1000gph at 6ft. . . so not that strong

  7. #57
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
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    There is a strong misconception that you need super strong circulation through your sump. That is not true. In fact, so long as you have supplemental circulation in the tank via power heads of some sort, 1000gph is plenty for a vast majority of reef keepers. Btw, I am not just a marketing guy, I am a hard core enthusiast. I am running a 230w red dragon personally on my 425g right now with 13-14' of head. The flow rate... 1000gph I measured it.
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  8. #58
    Frequent Visitor Alex's Avatar
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    Did you use the fmm to measure it?

  9. #59
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
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    Actually no. I used an old school method of filling a couple of 5 gallons bucket for 30 seconds on the drain side in my 280g sump. Measuring it. Then multiplying it by 120. Very soon I hope to be using the FMM to verify. For me I could have used any pump I wanted. However, saving power and recapturing the heat loss back to the water for energy efficiency was key (sump is under house in I heated area)
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  10. #60
    Frequent Visitor Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    ...Very soon I hope to be using the FMM to verify.
    Is it Feb?

  11. #61
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    That's true but to marksw point, the 230w red dragon is rated at 5500gph and you are getting 1000 with your plumbing. If you extrapolate that to the cor that would be 200gph on your 425 gallon tank so it would take 2 hours to turn over the volume of your tank.

  12. #62
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
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    Let me try and be more clear. My aquarium is not the norm. I could not run the COR on my aquarium due to head pressure. That head pressure is the main part that makes it outside the norm. Less so the tank size. So, if I were running my 425g tank with a sump directly under the display tank I could use the COR and get the same flow rate and my 425g tank would still run well with 3-4 WAV in it.

    Most likely more than 75% of the current Apex customer base has aquariums less than 425g and sumps six feet or less below their display tanks.

    Most run aquariums less than or equal to 180g with less than six feet of head pressure.
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  13. #63
    Fish Whisperer cypherljk's Avatar
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    Another thing to consider is people having manifolds on their lines as well... 1000 is just not a lot. It would be great if Neptune had a larger size also...

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cypherljk View Post
    Another thing to consider is people having manifolds on their lines as well... 1000 is just not a lot. It would be great if Neptune had a larger size also...
    Agreed 100 percent! I have a manifold feeding two reactors and hope to add another. I really was hoping to use the COR when it comes out but it would not be suitable to run all the reactors.

  15. #65
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
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    The goal for us as a company is to help hobbyists have more success and less hassle.

    In the area of return pumps, there cannot be a one size fits all approach so we are trying to come up with a solution that will fit the needs of a large swath of our customer base.

    If you are running an average 120g aquarium and want to plumb a manifold in to drive a reactor, there is still plenty of flow available.

    If you have a much larger aquarium you would want to have a separate pump on the manifold anyways.
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by marksw View Post
    Agreed 100 percent! I have a manifold feeding two reactors and hope to add another. I really was hoping to use the COR when it comes out but it would not be suitable to run all the reactors.
    I agree, if Neptune wants to be considered a serious player in the pump market they need to come out with a larger pump.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by cypherljk View Post
    Another thing to consider is people having manifolds on their lines as well... 1000 is just not a lot. It would be great if Neptune had a larger size also...
    Unless you have 1.5" drain lines or larger, you don't want more than 900 gph of flow anyway under any circumstance (to prevent flooding if one line clogs). I agree they eventually need a higher head capable pump with double the flow, but even with manifolds (considering most tanks have 5' of head), this is more than enough flow for any tank 180 gallons or less with manifolds and still sufficient for larger tanks without manifolds (or even with them if you like Ling contact time in fuge and skimmer)

  18. #68
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    I am a newby in reefing, started my first 29G biocube last April, so I will be the first to admit I do not know everything and still learning every day. However with that being said logic dictates that flow through the sump should be much lower than what most people are asking for. Just looking at specs how much water per hour can the average skimmer clean? Anywhere from 400 to 600 maybe? Also if you are running a fuge then you need contact time with the macro algae in order for it to have a chance to really pull nutrients from the water. So in my mind if the purpose of my sump is to process and clean water then I would not want anything more than what my skimmer could process running through it. At least that is what my newby logic comes to.

    I am in the process now of building out a new 180G tank and it has been my plan all along to match the flow through my sump to the amount of water my skimmer can handle. Based on the skimmer that I chose that is going to be right at 500 gallons per hour.

    If your filtration cannot properly clean 1500 gallons per hour why would you want to run that much water through your sump? Again I am a newby so please give me some actual facts to inform me better.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by autgr4life View Post
    I am a newby in reefing, started my first 29G biocube last April, so I will be the first to admit I do not know everything and still learning every day. However with that being said logic dictates that flow through the sump should be much lower than what most people are asking for. Just looking at specs how much water per hour can the average skimmer clean? Anywhere from 400 to 600 maybe? Also if you are running a fuge then you need contact time with the macro algae in order for it to have a chance to really pull nutrients from the water. So in my mind if the purpose of my sump is to process and clean water then I would not want anything more than what my skimmer could process running through it. At least that is what my newby logic comes to.

    I am in the process now of building out a new 180G tank and it has been my plan all along to match the flow through my sump to the amount of water my skimmer can handle. Based on the skimmer that I chose that is going to be right at 500 gallons per hour.

    If your filtration cannot properly clean 1500 gallons per hour why would you want to run that much water through your sump? Again I am a newby so please give me some actual facts to inform me better.
    You are actually dead on even being a newbie. A ton of people just think bigger is always better, when the reality is to try to match the skimmer capabilities, keep a good dwell in the refugium, and feed anything connected to a manifold.

  20. #70
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    The golden question when will the cor come out


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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by chercm View Post
    The golden question when will the cor come out


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    Good question! Also at what price

  22. #72
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    i think a lot of us are just sitting on the fence on the release date for the COR. For me , i plan to change from Jebao 3000 which is currently under powering my tank , can't be waiting till next year and after that need to wait for it to be shipping to Singapore. if there is no news in the near future then Neptune will be losing business from me. not trying any thing funny but can't be waiting forever even though i know it is good stuff.

  23. #73
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    There are multiple posts in this thread that mention the use of manifolds.

    I hope no one is using a manifold to join the output of two or more pumps. If anyone is doing so then you need to understand that the flow rates of the pumps do not add to each other without significant loss. In fact, by doing so, you are losing a surprisingly large amount total flow rate relative to running each pump through its own independent plumbing.

  24. #74
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    Posts here argue that sump throughput, or flow rate, needs to be low enough to allow sufficient contact time for a refugium to do its job. This would only apply to in-sump refugia and, for that matter, in-sump deep sand beds (RDSB).

    Some of us decouple sump, refugia and deep sand bed flow rates by not having them in our sumps in the first place. Of course it takes a lot more real estate and additional tanks and feed pumps to do that. So not all can set up that way. These two natural water quality processors has its own proper flow rate regime as does each of our other water quality processors, skimmers, reactors, dosers, sterilizers, heaters, chillers and such.

    No one flow rate suits them all. That is why running all of them as independent peripheal devices feeding from the sump and returing to the sump is an ideal configuration for an aquarium water quality processing system. In such a setup, each component can be provided its own throughput consistent with its processing capacity.

    In such a setup the display tank's water (plus any other tanks' water you want processed) needs to be circulated through the sump for water quality processing at a throughput rate that exceeds the throughput of whichever device has the highest processing throughput capacity or requirement. By how much it should exceed is where there is plenty room for argument.

    Very well designed and correctly sized protein skimmers are built to process about one to two system turnovers per hour. I don't know what an overall range would be for all skimmers. High end UV sterilizers need to turn over an entire system's water content at least 3 times per hour to control pathogens, more for other cases when lower UV exposure/dosage levels are required; e.g., maintenance levels for fish only (high dosage) versus reef only (lower dosage). Most other devices have far lower throughput requirements, some measured in drops per hour.

    So sump throughput sizing is important to satisfying your water processing devices' requirements. Someone running only a remote deep sand bed may only need 1/4-1/3 total system turnover per hour. Someone running a full complement of water quality processing may need a few to several turnovers per hour through the sump which may be running through plumbing that burdens the pumps producing this circulation with a few or many feet of head.

    Sizing my system with these rough guidelines yields my sump throughput requirement at about 4,000-5,000 gph at zero head.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by fab View Post
    Sizing my system with these rough guidelines yields my sump throughput requirement at about 6,000 gph at zero head.
    You might want to re-run those numbers. As I mentioned above, the flow through the sump should never exceed the maximum gravitational fed flow of a single drain line (if you have two). Unless you are running 3" drain pipes, that's a recipe for disaster.

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