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Thread: Custom pcb for breakout box

  1. #26
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    Jlentz -

    Question for you. First, would you mind sharing the eagle files somehow? I can provide my email in a PM if that is best. I'm in the process of learning Eagle now, but would like to compare to what you have.

    Second, have you considered not using a channel of the BoB to show a disconnect, and instead use some AND logic hacking and a virtual outlet to turn on if all inputs are open/closed (I forget the default state of the BoB switches). In cases such as floats, most are reversible and can be either normally open or normally closed, depending on the orientation. If you make the normal state of these switches the opposite of the default state of the Apex, I think this would give a pretty good indication that the BoB was unplugged without using an input.

    Only reason I bring that up is because I'm maxed out on my inputs. I'm always looking to maximize the capabilities.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango2 View Post
    Jlentz -

    Question for you. First, would you mind sharing the eagle files somehow? I can provide my email in a PM if that is best. I'm in the process of learning Eagle now, but would like to compare to what you have.

    Second, have you considered not using a channel of the BoB to show a disconnect, and instead use some AND logic hacking and a virtual outlet to turn on if all inputs are open/closed (I forget the default state of the BoB switches). In cases such as floats, most are reversible and can be either normally open or normally closed, depending on the orientation. If you make the normal state of these switches the opposite of the default state of the Apex, I think this would give a pretty good indication that the BoB was unplugged without using an input.

    Only reason I bring that up is because I'm maxed out on my inputs. I'm always looking to maximize the capabilities.

    No problem. Just pm me.

    I'm keeping it simple, I'm in no danger of running out of inputs, I've got 4 din inputs on my system.

    I'm not sure you could make apex work with logic like that.


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  3. #28
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango2 View Post
    Second, have you considered not using a channel of the BoB to show a disconnect, and instead use some AND logic hacking and a virtual outlet to turn on if all inputs are open/closed (I forget the default state of the BoB switches). In cases such as floats, most are reversible and can be either normally open or normally closed, depending on the orientation. If you make the normal state of these switches the opposite of the default state of the Apex, I think this would give a pretty good indication that the BoB was unplugged without using an input.
    This really isn't feasible to do without adding a lot of complexity. The Neptune BoB and JLent'z DIY version are passive devices - essentially, they are just wiring with a high-density connector on one end to connect to an Apex base's or PMx module's I/O jack, and a fan-out connector or terminal block on the other end; there are no active electronic components in the mix. To invert the OPEN/CLOSED logic would require turning the BoB into an active device with circuitry and a separate power source. And I can image the possible confusion which could result if a switch were actually CLOSED but the BoB spoofed the Apex into "thinking" that the connected switch was OPEN.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  4. #29
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    Custom pcb for breakout box

    KISS is the thing to keep in mind when dealing with this particular gpio. That's why I'm keeping is really simple, and passive.


    You can multiplex with arduino and a lot of other gpio systems but this one has a really slow polling time and not a lot of options like you'd have with another system.

    I didn't mention it earlier but I'm also keeping the din cable as short as possible.


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  5. #30
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    Just a reminder to all concerned that since this is a no power circuit, you only need continuity to operate circuit. So wire of most any size will work. I use door bell wire since it is small, has 2 wires, cheap, readily available and is sheathed into just 1 strand so it looks organized (a quality in which I need all the help I can get). I can fit 1 to 6 wires into terminal lugs on BOB. I can put all 6 common wires into ground lug and single wire in each channel still tightens just fine. Only draw back I can think of is - If solid core wire is constantly moved or bent, it may break into. I don't have any that fit that description. But I do set all float switches to normally closed so if open circuit happens, it only shuts off item, not turn on. A very important tip that I read on this forum.

    As to making this handy switching device more complex, you can monitor all circuits at the classic dash or with Fusion. As to having different colored lights to know what state each BOB circuit is in, ie.. red for closed and green for open. That is another topic many have mentioned in the Fusion forum. It would me nice to personally setup fusion with different colors for different tiles.

  6. #31
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    I use 24awg zip line. I get it on amazon, it's what they sell to wire up the single color led strips. It's stranded so it perfect.


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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    This really isn't feasible to do without adding a lot of complexity. The Neptune BoB and JLent'z DIY version are passive devices - essentially, they are just wiring with a high-density connector on one end to connect to an Apex base's or PMx module's I/O jack, and a fan-out connector or terminal block on the other end; there are no active electronic components in the mix. To invert the OPEN/CLOSED logic would require turning the BoB into an active device with circuitry and a separate power source. And I can image the possible confusion which could result if a switch were actually CLOSED but the BoB spoofed the Apex into "thinking" that the connected switch was OPEN.
    So I wasn't saying to invert the signals within the breakout box, my point was that the signals of the BoB don't dictate actions on the Apex - the Apex code does. I don't recall the default state for the switches if the BoB is unplugged, but if you make the 'normal' state of all the switches opposite of this, the chances of them all being in the default state at the same time are very small. That would make this state an alarm state for the BoB being unplugged, instead of using one channel just for detection of the circuit being plugged in.

    For example, if you have a skimmer full float, ATO float and a Sump low float connected to your BoB. You setup both the ATO and Sump floats so they are in the closed position when the float was in the UP position and the skimmer switch is closed in the down position. Assuming the default state (with BoB unplugged from the Apex) is open, then your BoB alarm condition would be if all floats registered OPEN. You may occasionally get a false positive, but you get back all channels of your BoB.

    Unless I'm missing something, I think this COULD work. I haven't tried it, but I'm tempted to do so now.

  8. #33
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Tango2, if you want to discuss ideas pertaining to programming using switches, please start a new thread in the Misc Programming area. This thread is about *making* a break-out box.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  9. #34
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    Tango2. This would have to do with your choice of switch. NC or NO. I guess you could get crazy with relays and stuff to invert the switch polarity but it adds unnecessary complexity to something that can be taken care of by selecting the proper switch.

    There are other threads about this I believe.

    V1 has all the outputs available. V2 lost input 6 since I have 4 din inputs in my system and I'm not hurting for inputs.


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  10. #35
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    I've had a couple of questions about the particulars of this. I'm not selling any of these however I'm more than happy to help people build them on their own if they are capable of basic soldering, trouble shooting and whatnot.

    I've shared the board on Osh Park, my PCB fab house, and will provide a link to the board so you can order some for yourself. There are a few things you need to know about this if you've never dealt with a PCB house before. #1 you have to buy 3 PCBs per design. So plan on building 3 of them. #2, it takes a few weeks unless you want to pay a ton of $$$. (Sometimes they upgrade your order if it fits into a panel about ready to go to fab) They keep the cost down by combining a bunch of designs into a single 1M square board so they've got to piece them together like a big puzzle and cut them apart when they come back from China.

    B.O.M.:

    Apex BOBV2 (Minimum order 3, $18.75)
    https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/jjSk3iku

    2 position Terminal Block (Need 15, $3.34)
    http://www.newark.com/amphenol-fci/2...ion/dp/59R8889

    2 Position Pluggable Terminal Block (Need 15, $2.50)
    http://www.newark.com/amphenol-fci/20020010-c021b01lf/terminal-block-plug-2-position/dp/99R3996

    8 Pin DIN Cable M-M (Need 2, $21.42) This is the cable that I used, I do not believe that there is a color code standard that anyone uses on these cables so test it when you get it to know which color is which pin.
    http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-Go-02318-Mini-Din/dp/B0002GWN84?ie=UTF8&keywords=8%20pin%20din%20cable& qid=1464396997&ref_=sr_ph&sr=1

    $46.01 before shipping/theft.

    Still needs solder, zip ties, and standoffs.


    Prices are what I've come up with just now.


    The BOB PCB posted above is for the 5ch version. It has the 6th channel connected in the board for a disconnect alarm. If you want the version with all 6 channels on it it is located here https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/jT7Ui8WP. You will need to order 3 extra terminal blocks and plugs to populate the extra positions.


    Just to make sure that it is understood, I'm not selling these, or making any $$$ off of these if you order them and put them together yourself. I really, really, hate barrier strips and especially hate sharing grounds on a single terminal.


    If anyone wants the eagleCAD files I'm more than happy to share them as well.
    Version 1 is licensed under Creative Commons.
    Version 2 is licensed BipoCot no Gov

  11. #36
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    One other thing I left off.

    I've not yet figured out what exactly I want to do with mounting, I'm planning on trying to get out to the hardware store to get some small 1/2" spacers and a small, maybe #6, 3/4" long wood screw to just screw it into my stand. I was experimenting with threaded standoffs but its not optimal.

  12. #37
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    Do you any photos of V2 put together, seems like a nice Lil project to tinker with

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  13. #38
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    I just installed this last week but I neglected to take pics. I will try to remember tonight when I get home. Hit me up again soon if I forget. It's been a long day.


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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fetta View Post
    Do you any photos of V2 put together, seems like a nice Lil project to tinker with

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    I ended up getting some 1/2"AL spacers and 3/4" #6 wood screws from true value to screw it to the wood.



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  15. #40
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    Here is a pic of how I connected the DIN cable. It's probably a safe bet that it's the same for you too if you get the one I listed above.

    Pin 1 is black. The numbers run from left to right if you have the board in the same orientation.


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  16. #41
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    Thanks for the info and link to the board design. I plan on ordering some. I also hate the single ground solution on the Neptune box!

  17. #42
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    @Jlentz Thanks for sharing this with the community. Got mine built and couldn't be happier.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyl View Post
    @Jlentz Thanks for sharing this with the community. Got mine built and couldn't be happier.
    Glad to hear!


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  19. #44
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    Have you managed to run 6 level switches from this PCB? Im looking at doing the same but i'm concerned with the power draw from the apex... any suggestions?

  20. #45
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    Power draw shouldnt be an issue. These switch inputs use just enough current to detect continuity.

  21. #46
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    It’s just contact closure. It shouldn’t be an issue.


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  22. #47
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    thank you

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