New Apex Went Crazy

[addonnis242]

Ok, so yesterday was a pretty crazy day for me with the new Apex. Before I get into what happened I will say that I have been a fan of Neptune Systems controllers since the original Aquacontrollers came out. I'll also say that the support team at Neptune Systems are great to work with when an issue arises.

That said let's get into what happened. So yesterday I received several alerts to my phone stating that my PH had dropped to a little below 7.5. I didn't think much of it as I was going to be home in a couple hours and I'd look in on the tank then. A couple hours later I walk into the house and I can hear the EB832 clicking the outlets off and on as well as my return pump starting and stopping every 3-5 seconds. So I run into the family room where the tank is and find water all over the floor. I open fusion and turn off the ATO pump and find that the pressure switch wasn't even tripped so the unit shouldn't have even been on. I look and see my temp is at 80.5 degrees yet the heater is on when it's programmed to be OFF at 79 degrees. I get everything turned off or unplugged and the EB832 is still clicking the outlets off and on.

I get things stabilized enough to clean up the water from my floor and inside my stand then open a support ticket. Support calls me and tries to get the unit back in order and finds that it will need to be sent back. I appreciate all the work troubleshooting the unit and attempting to get the unit back up but thereally is something I don't necessarily agree with.

Neptune Systems is going to send me out a new base unit to correct the issue, however I have to put a $300.00 deposit down in order to get the unit cross shipped. The deposit will of course be refunded when they receive the defective unit. So I have had the unit 3 days and spent $800.00 on it now I have to drop another $300 albeit temporarily to get the unit swapped out. In hindsight I probably should have just returned it as defective to saltwateraquarium.com and had them exchange it or refund me at which point the cost to me would have been $0 with the same results. I get that Neptune Systems wants to be sure they will get the faulty unit returned to them and I get that there will always be a certain percentage of defective devices in any mass produced product. I wouldn't have any issue with the deposit at all if I had a bad I/O Port or a bad 0-10v Port but we are talking catastrophic failure with this unit.

The support team did a great job attempting to rectify my issue and yes I will be sending the unit back for replacement. I will however most likely be keeping my Apex "Classic" and selling or returning the new Apex as this thing is going to keep me up at night worrying if something like this could happen again. The flood, change in salinity & PH, and temp nearly nuked my tank and has me scared to death.

I'm not posting this as a knock on Neptune Systems, the support team, or the new Apex as I have always been a fan of everything Neptune Systems. I just wanted to share my experience thus far with the 2016 Apex and hope nobody else runs into the same issue I have.

[danh]

Were they able to access anything through Fusion or locally? If THEY determined it was faulty, I would have hoped they wouldn't charge the deposit just days after the brand new one was released and installed. What are you going to do with a faulty unit? I guess some part of it is recoverable or has value. That sucks though. I would be livid if my brand new $800 controller did that. Glad things are working out. You didn't mention any casualties, so I guess that's good.

[addonnis242]

Were they able to access anything through Fusion or locally? If THEY determined it was faulty, I would have hoped they wouldn't charge the deposit just days after the brand new one was released and installed. What are you going to do with a faulty unit? I guess some part of it is recoverable or has value. That sucks though. I would be livid if my brand new $800 controller did that. Glad things are working out. You didn't mention any casualties, so I guess that's good.

Yes support was able to connect to the unit and reformat it etc and found that there was some software corruption. The unit is definitely faulty and it's known through support which is why they're going to swap it out but I agree with you I don't feel I should have to put a deposit down to have it swapped. Again I know they have their reasons for doing it this way but I have had skimmer pumps go bad before and the new pump was next day aired to me before the old pump was ever returned and this from a company not near as strong as Neptune Systems.

Fortunately there haven't been any casualties yet but several corals are still stressed out from the rapid swings so I'm not 100% out of the woods on that yet. The biggest pain in the a** was the clean up of the water, we'll that and listening to the "I told you so" from the wife. She's been telling me for a while now that having all my eggs in the Apex basket was going to bite me one day and it kind of did.

[addonnis242]

Just to update on the earlier statement about casualties. This morning I found my Mystic Sunset Montipora and pink Goniopora dead. The goniopora I expected as they tend to be pretty sensitive without an issue like this. Aside from these two everything else has started to look a lot better since this occurred.

[Junkycosmos]

image.jpeg

Earlier today my apex started alerting about dropping ph that seems pretty improbable. After a few hours I now an getting cond warning at crazy levels.

I only have have one test item connected to a outlet set as always on and so far it has stayed on.


I saw saw your post here just now as I came to check for why all of the levels on my probes have gone silly.

edit: adding that my apex has been up and running for 36 hours before this started. First 12hrs or so power bar had red ! due needing a firmware update. That firmware update was done almost exactly 24 hours before the probe readings went bad

[Junkycosmos]

Just notice these graphs this morning. Are the 0 vs 1s here the outlets and sensors bouncing on/ off?
not sure what I am seeing here

[addonnis242]

Seems like you're having a different issue than I was having. My probes all read fine until the Apex flooded my sump with fresh water. Have you had support check it out?

[addonnis242]

On a side note I am extremely disappointed in Neptune Systems customer service. After paying $800 for a device days after its release, having it be defective, flooding my home, and killing a couple of my corals I pay the $300 deposit to have a new unit cross shipped to me. Today I check the tracking on the new unit and it's scheduled to arrive July 8th. Now I get that there is a holiday in the mix as well but seriously you couldn't even 2nd or 3rd day the package? Even after software corruption in your device flooded my house!! I have always been a fan of Neptune Systems but this has pushed me over the edge.

It's ridiculous when I hear of people that have gotten better response to defective products from Jeboa than I've gotten from Neptune Systems!

After many years from the Aquacontroller through the Apex this has truly turned me off to Neptune Systems. Time for me to seriously start looking at the Vertex Cerebra.

[addonnis242]

I'm sure my previous post will be removed as that tends to be what happens on here when someone expresses displeasure with Neptune Systems. That being the case I'll also be posting on Reef Central and Reef 2 Reef.

[danh]

It's ridiculous when I hear of people that have gotten better response to defective products from Jeboa than I've gotten from Neptune Systems!

Really? Are you sure they're talking to Jebao, or are they talking to a retailer??

[addonnis242]

Really? Are you sure they're talking to Jebao, or are they talking to a retailer??

This is in reference to how Jeboa treats their customers. My buddy had his wave pump go out and had another one in hand in 3 days. Now whether that was from the retailer or Jeboa I'm not 100% sure. As I noted earlier I should have just returned my Apex to Saltwateraquarium.com and I could have avoided most of this annoyance and probably would already have a new unit.

[danh]

Exactly. I agree I would have taken it back where I got it. I don't think you'd be able to contact Jebao for anything lol. Their retailers have been fine.

[cypherljk]

I would like to thank all the early adopters... It's a thankless job. I want the new system but I never get anything before the 1st service pack / firmware update / software update / hw revision is released....

[danh]

My salinity seems off, but otherwise I am completely happy with this thing.

[addonnis242]

I never get anything before the 1st service pack / firmware update / software update / hw revision is released....

That's a smart move, I will also be adopting this policy for my future purchases.

[addonnis242]

I don't want anyone to think I'm bashing the Apex. As I stated before my Apex "classic" was great as was my Aquacontroller before that. Defective units are a fact of mass production and I'm not all that bent about receiving a defective unit. I'm bent on the way the return process has been handled and how I've been treated as a customer that purchased an $800 piece of equipment.

Again when I look at other controllers here shortly it will be primarily because of the customer service I have received with this new unit.

[fab]

I'm sure my previous post will be removed as that tends to be what happens on here when someone expresses displeasure with Neptune Systems.

That is why you do not see my reply to your earliest postings on this thread.

That said, I don't see the value in posting your gripes elsewhere...and they are totally legitimate gripes in my book. I had posted my now missing remarks here so Neptune Systems would know their handling of your dilemma is offensive to me, also a long time customer. I, too, still have my two very old aquacontrollers from the late 90s. They still work!

Overall Neptune Systems is a good company with great products for our aquariums. Knocking the company "all around town" will not remedy your issue. I know how offensive this situation has become to you and am sorry it is happening. But on the other hand, Neptune Systems' tech support has been very good, even excellent. They appear to be a little shorthanded, but their tech support staff is competent. They are courteous and very helpful.

Believe me, I have had far worse tech support from the company that builds my very nice lights and pumps. In fact I have never had good support from them of any kind. Their so-called tech support should drop the "tech" from their title. Their guy didn't know much at all about their lights when I have called in. In fact he could not even mask his utter incompetence. It has been shameful. Worse, given my last go round with them, with abysmal results, now I think they should also drop "support" from the title. I will probably get rid of their DC pumps, which I can only turn ON|OFF from my Apex, unlike their lights which I can use with profiles.

The point is, high quality tech support is extremely valuable to us. We have become far more complex - and expensive - than mercury thermometers and litmus strips. That has happened largely because of Neptune Systems. Complexity requires high quality tech support. Neptune Systems has it. Now they should work on the customer support side to bring it up to the high quality of their tech support.


Your experience in this instance has reinforced my reluctance to be an early adopter, so I will not jump on the COR pumps right away when they are finally released. Also, I will wait sometime now before I switch over to the new Apex and energy bar which I had planned to do this month after the 4th of July.


I do recommend you focus on getting everything in your aquarium working working now. I wish you well in that. I also strongly recommend against jumping from frying pan to fire. All the forums I have followed have reinforced the attitude I have expressed above. So I urge you to heed caveat emptor.

Please keep us posted on your situation as you recover from this dreadful event.
fab

[addonnis242]

Just to update the situation, a few minutes ago I received a phone call from Jon M. at Neptune Systems support. During the call he told me that they had in fact made a mistake and that the unit should have been shipped Next Day Air not ground. As a result of the shipping error I was offered a store credit.

While this doesn't make what happened right it does restore my faith in Neptune Systems customer service not because they offered me a store credit but because of the way it was handled. The fact that the apology came via a phone call and not an email or something went a long way, for me any way. In my opinion admitting when you are wrong is a sign of true character. Neptune Systems accepted responsibility for the error and attempted to make it right and I respect that.

I'd also like to add that Jon M. in Neptune Systems support had been great in his role during this entire situation.

[addonnis242]

Knocking the company "all around town" will not remedy your issue.
fab

I appreciate your reply however I think there is some confusion as to my purpose. In many posts I have stated that I am not knocking the Apex or Neptune Systems Support in any way. And the reason for posting elsewhere wasn't to knock the company as I have been a fan of almost every product they produce as noted by so many of them on my tank. But I believe in fairness across the board there will always be negatives that come up it doesn't make the company bad by any means if there is a negative comment but hiding that in my opinion would. Neptune Systems turned myou faith in their customer service completely around today with a phone call. That meant way more to me than the credit they offered. They could have sent me an email saying woops here's a credit but they didn't they showed a respect to me as a customer.

[fab]

Great! I am glad the company came through for you on this and "got it right." Actually, I am glad for all of us. This good reaction by Neptune Systems has farther reaching effects than just on you. It is good for all of us customers. It demonstrates the positives I spoke to above.

Thank you for sharing this unfortunate evolution with your fellow Apex users.

Also, I do understand you were not ridiculing Neptune Systems in anything you posted. You were legitimately critical of the company for a specific situation and you were generously constructive in your criticism. I do feel that posting the criticism more "widely" would have become not constructive, just as my criticism of the unnamed manufacturer of my lights and pumps is intentionally not constructive.

Best of luck on your recovery...and not only with your aquarium system, but also with your commander in chief.

And Thank You Neptune Systems,

fab