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Thread: Apex 2016 very slow, sometimes unresponsive

  1. #1
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    Apex 2016 very slow, sometimes unresponsive

    I setup my Apex 2016 several weeks ago, and it been working great. It not on my tank yet as I am waiting for my new tank to come in yet, but I wanted to get the unit working and setup. It has the latest firmware.

    Over the last few days I noticed my connection on fusion would be down, so I would logon to apex local and sometimes trying to logon it would say server is not responding other times it would logon, but would take 5 mins or so to access the logon screen and then once I logon it take another 1-2 mins to load and up to 40 sec switching between pages.

    I have tried both wired, wireless, also connected 2 different laptops to the unit and same thing, also switched out network cables.

    The other thing I have noticed the ping times are really high to the unit, even when wired direct to a PC, sometimes they will be 2ms or less for one ping, but the next 3 will be 1000ms. I have reset the unit and same problem still. Nothing is connected to the unit other than the EB right now. I have a ticket into support and we have been emailing back and forth with no resolution yet.

    Has anyone else seen this problem? My tank supposed to arrive in 2 weeks and I really like this sorted out soon.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    After going back and forth with support trying to trouble shoot the problem, they setup a meeting today and resolved the problem I was having. Thanks so much Neptune support.

  3. #3
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    For future reference (and readers) can you share the solution to the problem?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dberrett View Post
    For future reference (and readers) can you share the solution to the problem?
    Hey sure thing, support had to format it and re-install the firmware. It working perfect now.

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    I have been having the same problem, and just confirmed I also have abnormally high ping times (and even losses). (FWIW my Apex is hard-wired, and no other devices on my home network have been having any problems.) This only started happening a few days ago, and is incredibly frustrating. Can the format/reinstall be done by the user? If so, how? Or do we have to get support to do it for us remotely? (Of course it's the beginning of a holiday weekend...)

    kimball:~>ping 192.168.142.213
    PING 192.168.142.213 (192.168.142.213): 56 data bytes
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=3.800 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=372.560 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=658.013 ms
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 4
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=579.149 ms
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 6
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=641.749 ms
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 8
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=535.851 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=10 ttl=64 time=163.808 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=11 ttl=64 time=596.045 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=12 ttl=64 time=224.829 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=13 ttl=64 time=485.990 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=14 ttl=64 time=117.595 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=15 ttl=64 time=537.727 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=16 ttl=64 time=166.274 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=17 ttl=64 time=449.527 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=18 ttl=64 time=77.840 ms
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 19
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=20 ttl=64 time=209.345 ms
    ^C
    --- 192.168.142.213 ping statistics ---
    22 packets transmitted, 16 packets received, 27.3% packet loss
    round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 3.800/363.756/658.013/215.132 ms
    kimball:~>

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erasmus View Post
    I have been having the same problem, and just confirmed I also have abnormally high ping times (and even losses). (FWIW my Apex is hard-wired, and no other devices on my home network have been having any problems.) This only started happening a few days ago, and is incredibly frustrating. Can the format/reinstall be done by the user? If so, how? Or do we have to get support to do it for us remotely? (Of course it's the beginning of a holiday weekend...)

    kimball:~>ping 192.168.142.213
    PING 192.168.142.213 (192.168.142.213): 56 data bytes
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=3.800 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=372.560 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=658.013 ms
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 4
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=579.149 ms
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 6
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=641.749 ms
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 8
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=535.851 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=10 ttl=64 time=163.808 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=11 ttl=64 time=596.045 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=12 ttl=64 time=224.829 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=13 ttl=64 time=485.990 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=14 ttl=64 time=117.595 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=15 ttl=64 time=537.727 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=16 ttl=64 time=166.274 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=17 ttl=64 time=449.527 ms
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=18 ttl=64 time=77.840 ms
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 19
    64 bytes from 192.168.142.213: icmp_seq=20 ttl=64 time=209.345 ms
    ^C
    --- 192.168.142.213 ping statistics ---
    22 packets transmitted, 16 packets received, 27.3% packet loss
    round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 3.800/363.756/658.013/215.132 ms
    kimball:~>
    This is exact type of problems I was seeing as well. You are going to need to contact support. It something they have to fix as I had to setup phone call with them to format it and reinstall the firmware.

  7. #7
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    Had my support call today. They are going to ship me a new Apex, so hopefully things will be resolved soon enough, although I'm not looking forward to having to reprogram everything...

    I must say, though, I was wholly underwhelmed by their tech support staff. The person who called wasn't long on people skills--not even a hello or other pleasantries. OK, I get skilled tech staff are expensive and maybe not optimized for "bedside manner". Was even more surprised, however, when he was completely flummoxed because I had installed their remote-access software in a VM so he wasn't able to see the Apex with the tool he installed (which presumably works by link-local broadcast). He stopped immediately and refused to proceed, despite my showing him on the screen that the Apex was readily accessible despite the VM, by loading the Fusion local interface in a Web browser.

    I'm quite surprised they have decided on such an invasive support mechanism--complete remote control of the user's PC--and have not trained their staff to deal with a VM environment, as I can't imagine giving some random person access to my actual machine. They could cut and paste an "rm -rf *" faster than I could pull the plug! (Not that I am implying anyone from Neptune would deliberately harm a customer's PC, but everyone makes mistakes from time to time.)

  8. #8
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    I am seeing this with Apex Local. Not seeing it with Fusion. Apex Fusion is lightning fast compared to the Apex Local interface. I would assume it would be the opposite, but maybe I'm wrong. Any suggestions on how to improve the lag time I am seeing as it literally can take 15 seconds or more resulting in a timeout or communication error message? This seem to only be within the last week or so.
    Chad

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamchadster View Post
    I am seeing this with Apex Local. Not seeing it with Fusion. Apex Fusion is lightning fast compared to the Apex Local interface. I would assume it would be the opposite, but maybe I'm wrong. Any suggestions on how to improve the lag time I am seeing as it literally can take 15 seconds or more resulting in a timeout or communication error message? This seem to only be within the last week or so.
    What are your ping times to the Apex controller? I noticed the same thing Apex Fusion was very fast, but when I made any changes on Fusion I had to wait a long time to see them on local. Though mine sometimes would take up to 5 mins to logon to local. I knew I had a problem when my ping times were above 500, when I first got the unit they were around 2ms. I guess something caused the firmware to be corrupted, I don't know if it just happened or the power went out or something. I now have the controller on a UPS, which gives the needed time for generator to kick on. Support was great for me, but I did have to nag them several times after I first put the ticket in to keep them moving on the problem.

    So far "knock on wood" it running fine since they fixed it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishstix View Post
    What are your ping times to the Apex controller? I noticed the same thing Apex Fusion was very fast, but when I made any changes on Fusion I had to wait a long time to see them on local. Though mine sometimes would take up to 5 mins to logon to local. I knew I had a problem when my ping times were above 500, when I first got the unit they were around 2ms. I guess something caused the firmware to be corrupted, I don't know if it just happened or the power went out or something. I now have the controller on a UPS, which gives the needed time for generator to kick on. Support was great for me, but I did have to nag them several times after I first put the ticket in to keep them moving on the problem.

    So far "knock on wood" it running fine since they fixed it.
    ok so how do I find that out? Ping times etc.
    Chad

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamchadster View Post
    ok so how do I find that out? Ping times etc.
    Open command prompt, if your running windows it should be under all programs/accessories, once the window opens type ping ip (ip is the IP address of your apex controller)

    It should look something like this.


    C:\Users\fishstix>ping 192.168.1.120
    Pinging 192.168.1.120 with 32 bytes of data:
    Reply from 192.168.1.120: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
    Reply from 192.168.1.120: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
    Reply from 192.168.1.120: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
    Reply from 192.168.1.120: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
    Ping statistics for 192.168.1.120:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 2ms, Maximum = 2ms, Average = 2ms
    C:\Users\fishstix>

  12. #12
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    Capture.JPG
    is this good or bad?
    Chad

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamchadster View Post
    Capture.JPG
    is this good or bad?
    Yeah that looks good, your ping times are less than 1ms, which is great.

  14. #14
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    Well, I wonder why it takes so long to go between the screens. Odd. It works the majority of the time, but occasionally it gets hung up. It still is at least 10 plus seconds just to switch screens which seems slow. That is on my phone via my LAN, and on my home PC. Maybe it will get faster down the road with firmware updates etc. Really appreciate the info on how to figure that PING function out.
    Chad

  15. #15
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    Sounds like you're experiencing occasional packet loss, which would cause the web pages not to load, or take an extremely long time. The Fusion web interface does not involve the Apex at all, so runs as fast as your internet connection. Yes, it gets data from your Apex, but that happens asynchronously so unless connectivity is completely lost (in which case the Apex will attempt to re-establish), it just results in the updates being somewhat slow, but you won't really see that unless you try to use Fusion to control the Apex by, e.g, hitting one of the Feed mode buttons.

  16. #16
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    How can I better make my packets so they are not lost? Lol
    Chad

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    At least your devices had connectivity. Since the last firmware update, mine just disappears of the network, completely... multiple reboots eventually get it back online... if I'm lucky... right now, it's just not wanting to talk to anyone... hide in it's corner... great, I have an emo Apex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamchadster View Post
    How can I better make my packets so they are not lost? Lol
    Look at your home network... either too many things with activity or your router / hub isn't current with firmware? I have a business class setup with switches, etc so I can set the controller and other "IoT" type equipment in their own VLAN to help with the network traffic... some home routers allow VLAN at well.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottmoote View Post
    Look at your home network... either too many things with activity or your router / hub isn't current with firmware? I have a business class setup with switches, etc so I can set the controller and other "IoT" type equipment in their own VLAN to help with the network traffic... some home routers allow VLAN at well.
    Maybe I'll just throw this out there as you have given me an idea about what may be happening. Yes between my wife and kids on Xbox's and wireless devices etc. and 2 apex systems on the network maybe the workload is a little high. I have the standard Comcast router/modem combo. Any ideas where I would look to prioritize how the router handles devices? That would make sense to me and I have wondered if there was a way to give certain devices priority over the others. Any suggestions on what to look into on prioritizing devices on a Comcast router?
    Chad

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    I don't have Comcast but if it has any option to prioritize it would likely be referenced as QoS (quality of service).
    Another option is to get a higher end switch / wifi that can optimize the traffic better and then just plug that into the Comcast router.
    This is one option - also many times these newer switches would have tools to better see what is going on with the network traffic overall.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  21. #21
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    I own a Linksys router I think I can bridge to that and set up QoS on it.
    Chad

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    Keep in mind that there could be numerous other reasons for this to appear slow... in my line of work I just always look to eliminate variables and isolate whatever the problem area seems to be.


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottmoote View Post
    Keep in mind that there could be numerous other reasons for this to appear slow... in my line of work I just always look to eliminate variables and isolate whatever the problem area seems to be.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I read another post where the user wiped his whole system and had luck. This isn't traditionally a good idea so I'm searching for some simple answers. I understand a good amount about the apex and programming etc but when it comes to some of the details in the networking I a bit weak there . I appreciate your suggestions.
    Chad

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    Did you get this sorted ?
    I ran into something very similar end of last week on my apex. After 3 months of locking up every 1-2 days requiring a power cycle to regain connectivity ( https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...cal-and-fusion) my units issues took a turn for the worse last week. My unit would no longer connect to wifi at all and when on Ethernet it was extremely slow. Worked with support for 2 hours (new firmware took 45 minutes to install). I ended up talking to three different tech support people all who. After my request they did do a rma swap which they overnighted without question.

    New (refurbished , sn sticker stacked onto of old one) Apex connected right up to wifi and is running nice and fast. Also noted my conductivity salt probe reading immediately returned to normal on the "new" apex.

    One thing we did not try with the old unit was a full reset so maybe that would be worth a try.

  25. #25
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    My NIC just died last night. I have no network connection and am gonna replace the card today. I'm suspecting that the faulty card was on its last leg and was giving me trouble. I'll update later tonight if I can find a card locally.
    Chad

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