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Thread: PMUP and Kalkwasser

  1. #1
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    PMUP and Kalkwasser

    Seriously considering for use in a Kalkwasser resevoir.

    Any ideas if this pump will hold up in kalkwasser high pH conditions ?

  2. #2
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    My recommendation if you have not thought of this already is to put a valve on the outlet tubing of the PMUP so you can drip Kalk instead of flowing Kalk into your tank. This way you can protect your tank if there was ever a failure.
    Jon

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    I've got all that covered been doing using kalkwasser for 13 years, im in IT so I'm all about redundancy. BRS 50ml dosing pump don't seem to last much longer than 18months the plastic gears strip out plus running 2-3 gallons per day probably doesn't help the wear and tear on the BRS dosing pump. Been using aqualifter on a 5 seconds on 5minutes ( varies depending on alk levels ) off during lights out period until I decide a replacement. Just wondering about the exposure to kalkwasser so long as keep the bottom out of the carbonate precipitant.

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    NSI Member eschulist's Avatar
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    Great question David. This is something I'd like to know as well since I use Kalk for my top off and am upgrading to a Neptune controlled system. With their new ATO kit and some programming it probably could be set to turn on for only a few seconds every hour from 20:00 - 8:00 if water level < optical sensor.

    The pump does 100gph though compared to the 50ml doser we've used. So this thing can only be on for a very short time. The main intack is on the very bottom of the pump which is great for standard ATO but will sit right in the slurry of Kalk. You'd probably need to a little 2-4" acrylic stand for it to sit on inside the container.

    https://www.neptunesystems.com/pmup/

    What other equipment were you thinking about getting David? wink wink

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    Quote Originally Posted by eschulist View Post
    Great question David. This is something I'd like to know as well since I use Kalk for my top off and am upgrading to a Neptune controlled system. With their new ATO kit and some programming it probably could be set to turn on for only a few seconds every hour from 20:00 - 8:00 if water level < optical sensor.

    The pump does 100gph though compared to the 50ml doser we've used. So this thing can only be on for a very short time. The main intack is on the very bottom of the pump which is great for standard ATO but will sit right in the slurry of Kalk. You'd probably need to a little 2-4" acrylic stand for it to sit on inside the container.

    https://www.neptunesystems.com/pmup/

    What other equipment were you thinking about getting David? wink wink
    Just to tack on to that thought about the slurry in the bottom of the container, I use a power head which runs for a few minutes before my top off pump is cut on to mix up the precipitation.

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    NSI Member eschulist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cypherljk View Post
    Just to tack on to that thought about the slurry in the bottom of the container, I use a power head which runs for a few minutes before my top off pump is cut on to mix up the precipitation.
    Wouldn't that cause all of the precipitant to just become suspended in the water when its drawn out. I've aways been under the assumption that once the water is well mixed with the Kalk it is saturated and that the rest settles out on the bottom. This bottom slurry is just garbage and as long as you are sucking up the clear saturated water you are good to go. Adding the precipitant to the tank is just putting it in the bottom of your sump or in the sand where it will build up.

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    You never want to mix the resevoir until it's time to refill. Mix once and let it sit until time to refill. Anytime your stir it up your potentially adding co2 which will make it less potent. If you want to test it, use a conductivity meter not a pH meter. The precipant on the bottom is not soluable.

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    I thought you wanted the mix to settle before dosing it.

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    Maybe I misunderstood. Yes, the initial mix. Then leave it sit until time to refill again. You do not want to stir or mix everytime the pump is to topoff.

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    Fish Whisperer cypherljk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschulist View Post
    Wouldn't that cause all of the precipitant to just become suspended in the water when its drawn out. I've aways been under the assumption that once the water is well mixed with the Kalk it is saturated and that the rest settles out on the bottom. This bottom slurry is just garbage and as long as you are sucking up the clear saturated water you are good to go. Adding the precipitant to the tank is just putting it in the bottom of your sump or in the sand where it will build up.
    Interesting I will have to investigate. The precip never gets to the sump because I use a pre-filter on the line in-between the ATO and the pump. I will check the info about saturation though.

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    I built a cage for around the pump out of 3" pvc and end caps to keep the pump out of the carbonate precip on the bottom of the reservoir. Can dial it down pretty well with 1/4" ball valve.

    Its only been about a week. Will see how it goes. Likely will just buy a replacement dosing pump for the long term but will see how it goes I might be surprised.

  12. #12
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    I currently use a Aqualifter pump to add my Kalk. It's controlled via my APEX to add a set amount every 1/2 hour. Works great.

    I would like to know if others have success with the PMUP dosing Kalk.

    Is the PMUP conpatable with the Gold APEX system or do I have to add a module?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Hello,

    What is the durability of the pump in those conditions where you are using it inside the Kalk vessel?
    I used to use like that the tunze 9v pump just to realize those didn't last long ... I moved to a Kalk reactor just because of that.

    All the best,
    Rui

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rui Manuel Gaspar View Post
    Hello,

    What is the durability of the pump in those conditions where you are using it inside the Kalk vessel?
    I used to use like that the tunze 9v pump just to realize those didn't last long ... I moved to a Kalk reactor just because of that.

    All the best,
    Rui
    I worry about that too, maybe that is why the Aqualifter is such a good pump for this type of thing. I mount the pump about the container and pulls the Kalk through the pump. Works well but the flow rate changes as the water level drops that the pump has to pull the Kalk higher. So far has been reliable.


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    The New apex has the connectors built into the eb8. The classic gold for sure requires the module.

    Only time will tell and that's really what this is all about. Years ago before dosing pumps were commonly used I ran kalkwasser with a Maxijet pump and they would last a couple years before the kalkwasser finally make the glue that holds the magnet to the impeller give out. I haven't opened up the PMUP to see exactly how the impeller is constructed yet. I'll try not to becomes a "LARS" and soak in vinegar often.

    I've been through several dosing pumps and get on average about 18months out of them before the gears wear out or some other failures and they run about $80. If can get to last about that long then it's a win.

    I did try a 1/4" check valve ( for ro units ) and there must not be enough back pressure for it to work so it will reverse if your not careful. So just like aqualifter keep the output above your resevoir and not in under the water level or it will back siphon.

  16. #16
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    Have you considered using a Nielson reactor and using a DOS to pump rodi water into it and not having the pump in the Kalk? (and not having to mix up batches of kalkwassrer)

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    David - Now that almost a year has gone by, can you give an update on how the PMUP has done with kalk? I'm just now setting up the same thing.

    can you also tell me more about the cage you built for the PMUP using 3" pvc? I need something to ensure the pump doesn't get into the sludge at the bottom of the Brute trash barrel. I had hoped that I could just keep the ro tubing short enough to keep it out but it seems that the connectors won't hold and support the pump. So I need a platform of some type that will still allow me to stir the freshly mixed kalk (I stir it manually using a long length of pvc since it only has to be done when it's refilled).

  18. #18
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    @David. Im in the same boat as Mickey. Would love an update on how your PMUP is holding up in Kalk

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    Tuning in here as well


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    Frequent Visitor rsucre's Avatar
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    Would like to know too...

  21. #21
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    Well, I've now been using the ATK adding Kalk as top-off for almost 5 months. A couple of glitches in the beginning to get things working but now working perfectly as long as I catch my top0ff Kalk barrel before the level gets too low. I do try to remember to wipe off the sensors once every week or two but I don't always remember.

    Neptune strongly recommends not modifying the program except in unusual circumstances. My display is 225 so at times there is a lot of top-off and I ended up modifying the program to allow it to come on once every 20 minutes or so as once an hour was much too short for my needs and it stays on for a max of 8 minutes rather than 5 minutes. Works perfectly but does come on often, almost every 20 minutes when the lights are on, but level is very consistent.

    My Kalk top-off is in the basement in a 45 gallon Brute trash can so the PMUP has to pump up to the ceiling, over about 6 ft to the opening in the floor under the stand, and then up into the sump. I find that once the level in the can drops about 2/3 the PMUP can't pump any more. If I don't catch it soon enough, the alarms go off and sometimes the sump gets too low before I can switch to my back-up container. Than it take some fiddling to get the sump back to the right level without alarms going off all the time because the PMUP runs for too long, plus I don't want to add too much Kalk at once.

    One of these days, I'm going to try hooking up an optical sensor in the Kalk top-off barrel to see if it can function in a saturated solution and warn me when the level is getting too low. If and when I get that set up I'll update again.

    Mickey

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    I stopped after just a month or so. There was not enough backpressure for the 1/4" check valve to stop backflow consistantly. So when it turned on the amount would vary depending on much was in the line. I just went back to dosing pump.

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    guys i have a idea. im new to the hobby but ive been a pipefitter building heating and cooling systems for over 14 years now. pipe is pipe its all the same and controlling. let me know what you guys think

    it looks like im gonna use the avast marine kalk stirr but thats because im at same elevation. if your below with the trash can then you need to make it air tight for my idea
    pump ro water into the reactor and and let it drain in the sump. having it controlled by your ph monitor to tell it when to turn on or off.
    have your ro top off water on a seperate system. have another optical sensor above your ato sensor or right at it so that it turns the kalk pump off as well. or if the atk sensors can do that?
    also have a prob in your kalk to sense when the ph get lower. then you will know when to change that out.
    if this is true can you add more kalk to your reactor? since its being controlled?

    having your pump not in the kalk bath should make it last a lot longer.
    even then you can tell the stirr to turn on say at 8.05 then have your kalk pump turn on at 8.04 then have both turned off at your desired spot. just as a example
    surely this isnt to hard to code?
    this was my idea ive spent way to many hours thinking of it. and havent really seen a viable concrete answer on forums

    what do you guys think?

  24. #24
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarcia View Post
    guys i have a idea. im new to the hobby but ive been a pipefitter building heating and cooling systems for over 14 years now. pipe is pipe its all the same and controlling. let me know what you guys think

    it looks like im gonna use the avast marine kalk stirr but thats because im at same elevation. if your below with the trash can then you need to make it air tight for my idea
    pump ro water into the reactor and and let it drain in the sump. having it controlled by your ph monitor to tell it when to turn on or off.
    have your ro top off water on a seperate system. have another optical sensor above your ato sensor or right at it so that it turns the kalk pump off as well. or if the atk sensors can do that?
    also have a prob in your kalk to sense when the ph get lower. then you will know when to change that out.
    if this is true can you add more kalk to your reactor? since its being controlled?

    having your pump not in the kalk bath should make it last a lot longer.
    even then you can tell the stirr to turn on say at 8.05 then have your kalk pump turn on at 8.04 then have both turned off at your desired spot. just as a example
    surely this isnt to hard to code?
    this was my idea ive spent way to many hours thinking of it. and havent really seen a viable concrete answer on forums

    what do you guys think?
    That is the ideal way to use kalk. Kalk stirrer on a dosing schedule plus seperate RODI top off. Many don't though to save costs but if you factor the expense of replacing pumps the Kalk stirrer is often cheaper in the long run.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    That is the ideal way to use kalk. Kalk stirrer on a dosing schedule plus seperate RODI top off. Many don't though to save costs but if you factor the expense of replacing pumps the Kalk stirrer is often cheaper in the long run.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Haha I’m not a engineer. Just a pipefitter. I can understand systems pretty easily. My plumbing build is probaly very complex to most but it’s just normal to me.
    But I’m still new to this hobby and learning.

    So what would ls be best?
    Use one side of my dos doser? Or maybe both in sequence to up flow and not wear one out so fast??? I already have they system and was just gonna return it to brs.
    Or
    Use a small sicce pump “90gpg”
    Put a valve on the line and throttle it back.

    Both ways I can set on or off Incordance by the ph probe.

    Can I add more kalk to the stirrer?? Make it last a month? Since it will have a controller on it?
    I keep getting mixed answers
    Hopefully this will be my last weekend of plumbing I need to know which was to set up for plumbing

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