Delay for Return during AWC

[Raul-7]

I need to create a VO for my return pump to wait 10 minutes after my FillPump turns ON before turning ON. This is to ensure enough water has submerged the intake.

AWC_Delay
Set OFF
If AWC_Fill = ON Then ON
Defer 010:00 Then ON

Then to the return pump add:
Fallback ON
Set ON
If Outlet DrainPump = ON Then OFF
If Outlet AWC_Delay = ON Then ON

Is that correct? It did not work; the return turned ON after the DrainPump turned OFF

[p7willm]

The Apex evaluates the programming for each outlet every second and it evaluates all the statements. Think of it as keeping an internal state and at the end it sets the external state to the internal state.

Also, it looks like there is an error in the AWC_Delay
I am fairly sure If AWC_Fill = ON Then ON is not valid.

Lets look at the return code step by step
Falback ON : Hopefully the Apex is still working so this statement does nothing
Set ON : Sets the internal statement to ON
If Outlet DrainPump = ON Then OFF : The draining has started so the return is off
If Outlet AWC_Delay = ON Then ON : Lets say it is not on yet.

The internal state is off so the outlet is OFF

Now go through it again after DrainPump is no longer on.
The Set ON sets it to on and neither If is true so they do nothing so the outlet is ON.

You need to provide more information, is AWC_Fill an outlet? Will it be on more than 10 minutes? What kicks this whole thing off?

AWC_Delay will only come on after, I assume Outlet, AWC_Fill comes on and stays on for 10 minutes and it will only stay on while AWC_Fill is ON.

[Raul-7]

The Apex evaluates the programming for each outlet every second and it evaluates all the statements. Think of it as keeping an internal state and at the end it sets the external state to the internal state.

Also, it looks like there is an error in the AWC_Delay
I am fairly sure If AWC_Fill = ON Then ON is not valid.

Lets look at the return code step by step
Falback ON : Hopefully the Apex is still working so this statement does nothing
Set ON : Sets the internal statement to ON
If Outlet DrainPump = ON Then OFF : The draining has started so the return is off
If Outlet AWC_Delay = ON Then ON : Lets say it is not on yet.

The internal state is off so the outlet is OFF

Now go through it again after DrainPump is no longer on.
The Set ON sets it to on and neither If is true so they do nothing so the outlet is ON.

You need to provide more information, is AWC_Fill an outlet? Will it be on more than 10 minutes? What kicks this whole thing off?

AWC_Delay will only come on after, I assume Outlet, AWC_Fill comes on and stays on for 10 minutes and it will only stay on while AWC_Fill is ON.

AWC
Set OFF
If Time 12:00 to 13:10 Then ON
If DoW S-TW-FS Then OFF
If FeedB 000 Then ON


DrainPump
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet AWC = ON Then ON
If LowL OPEN Then OFF
Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

FillPump
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet ATO = ON Then ON
If Outlet AWC_Fill = ON Then ON

AWC_Fill
Set OFF
If Outlet AWC = ON Then ON
If Outlet DrainPump = ON Then OFF
If NormL OPEN Then OFF
If HighL OPEN Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON

Italics denotes a VO. Bold denotes a physical outlet.

I want my return to start 10 minutes after AWC_Fill starts; this ensures the return intake is fully submerged.

[p7willm]

I need to see the code for the return outlet.

Your drain pump comes on and drops the water level to LowL within 10 minutes and shuts off. 1 hour later, still within the 12:00 to 13:10, if LowL is CLOSED the drain pump comes back on for a second time. Is this correct?

What is the code for ATO?

What are you trying to do? I know water change but do I have this right. Every day except Monday and Thursday you turn the return off, pump water out with DrainPump until it gets to LowL (Remember it will turn on again if it gets it done within 10 minutes). When DrainPump turns off FillPump comes on if ATO is ON (There is nothing to shut it off as long as ATO is ON. It will run day or night with no regard for anything as long as ATO is ON. If ATO is ON AWC_Fill does not matter) If ATO is OFF then FillPump comes on if AWC_Fill is ON. AWC_Fill is only on 12:00 to 13:10 except Monday and Thursday. It is not on if DrainPump is ON and it is not on if either NormL or HighL is OPEN. When it comes on it will wait 1 minute before it does. It may come on multiple times if both NormL and HighL close and stay closed for a minute.

Are you trying to turn return off, pump water out until it reaches LowL (What do you want to do if LowL is broken and does not open?) Wait a minute and start the fill pump until the water level reaches NormL, with HighL as a safety (You should get a warning if HighL ever opens.) (What happens if both NormL and HighL fail?) 10 minutes after you start to fill turn the return pump on (If something goes wrong with the fill pump or it runs out of water the return will come on without being submerged. ) Do you have some way to tell if something is going wrong?

If ATO is the outlet that controls your ATO then FillPump will be on whenever the ATO is on. During my automatic water changes I turn my ATO off. I have a float in my new salt water so if it is low the change does not occur.

I have a salinity probe so if something goes wrong for a few days the salinity change will kick an alarm and stop water changes.

Waiting 10 minutes to start the return does not ensure that the intake is submerged. A switch could fail and stop the FillPump, the FillPump could break, the water the FillPump is using could run out, a hose involved it filling could break or come off a barb. Switches WILL fail, pumps DO break. When you are doing manual water changes there are 2 parts, doing the change, and making sure nothing goes wrong. If you do automatic water changes the first part if fairly simple but the second is harder.

[Raul-7]

I need to see the code for the return outlet.

Your drain pump comes on and drops the water level to LowL within 10 minutes and shuts off. 1 hour later, still within the 12:00 to 13:10, if LowL is CLOSED the drain pump comes back on for a second time. Is this correct?

No, the Min Time 060:00 makes sure the DrainPump does not come back ON more than once during the AWC phase.

What is the code for ATO?

My ATO works fine; and the AWC works perfectly. I fine-tuned it until it became perfect.

What are you trying to do? I know water change but do I have this right. Every day except Monday and Thursday you turn the return off, pump water out with DrainPump until it gets to LowL (Remember it will turn on again if it gets it done within 10 minutes). When DrainPump turns off FillPump comes on if ATO is ON (There is nothing to shut it off as long as ATO is ON. It will run day or night with no regard for anything as long as ATO is ON. If ATO is ON AWC_Fill does not matter) If ATO is OFF then FillPump comes on if AWC_Fill is ON. AWC_Fill is only on 12:00 to 13:10 except Monday and Thursday. It is not on if DrainPump is ON and it is not on if either NormL or HighL is OPEN. When it comes on it will wait 1 minute before it does. It may come on multiple times if both NormL and HighL close and stay closed for a minute.

Are you trying to turn return off, pump water out until it reaches LowL (What do you want to do if LowL is broken and does not open?) Wait a minute and start the fill pump until the water level reaches NormL, with HighL as a safety (You should get a warning if HighL ever opens.) (What happens if both NormL and HighL fail?) 10 minutes after you start to fill turn the return pump on (If something goes wrong with the fill pump or it runs out of water the return will come on without being submerged. ) Do you have some way to tell if something is going wrong?

If ATO is the outlet that controls your ATO then FillPump will be on whenever the ATO is on. During my automatic water changes I turn my ATO off. I have a float in my new salt water so if it is low the change does not occur.

I have a salinity probe so if something goes wrong for a few days the salinity change will kick an alarm and stop water changes.

Waiting 10 minutes to start the return does not ensure that the intake is submerged. A switch could fail and stop the FillPump, the FillPump could break, the water the FillPump is using could run out, a hose involved it filling could break or come off a barb. Switches WILL fail, pumps DO break. When you are doing manual water changes there are 2 parts, doing the change, and making sure nothing goes wrong. If you do automatic water changes the first part if fairly simple but the second is harder.

This is a FW setup. So salinity does NOT matter. The ATO also has pre-specified times when to come ON.

My AWC works fine; problem is the return. I want it to delay for 10 minutes after the DrainPump stops.

Thanks for helping me out.

[p7willm]

In the return

If Outlet AWC = ON Then OFF
If Outlet AWCDelay = ON Then ON

AWCFillHold
If Outlet AWC_Fill = ON Then ON
If Outlet AWC = OFF then OFF


AWCDelay
If Outlet AWCFillHold = ON Then ON
If Outlet AWC = OFF Then OFF
Defer 010:00 Then ON



This shuts the return off when the AWC_Fill starts and turns it back on when the delay is done.

AWCFillHold is needed cause I need something to be on from the time Fill starts and not go off, as fill will when the water makes it to NormL.

AWCDelay turns on 10 minutes after AWCFillHold does and stays on until AWC is over.

Since AWC turns the return off and AWCDelay turns it back on there might be a problem at the end of AWC with the return shutting down for a second. If this happens, I don't think it will, add Defer 000:01 Then OFF to AWCFillHold and AWCDelay and it should clear up.

[Raul-7]

Why do I need both VOs? Seems redundant; why not just have AWC_Delay? Not arguing; just curious.

[p7willm]

If AWC_Fill turns off within the 10 minute delay then AWCDelay never comes on and the return will not come on until the AWC is over.

Also, if AWC_Fill does take over 10 minutes the pump will come back on, and when AWC_Fill turns off then AWCDelay turns off and the pump stops again. You could fix this with a Delay OFF but since AWCFillHold is there you don't need it.

If you are sure AWC_Fill will always be on for over 10 minutes then you can get rid of AWCFillHold and add the Delay OFF to AWWCDelay.

[Raul-7]

Return
Fallback ON
Set ON
If Outlet AWC = ON Then OFF
If Outlet AWC_Delay = ON Then ON
If LowL OPEN Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF

AWC_Delay
Set OFF
If Outlet AWC_Fill = ON Then ON
Defer 010:00 Then ON

Works perfectly. Thank you.