Sizing a generator to handle part of an aquarium system.

[TerraReef]

I am working with a general contractor to determine the smallest size generator that will work for a large aquarium we are installing.
The Apex will know there is a power outage within three seconds as it will have the 12v adapter plugged into an outlet that isn’t on the generator. The EB832s will be plugged into outlets that will be run by the generator, but will not have power for 10-20 seconds as the generator starts to boot up.
If the whole aquarium system needs 80amps to run normally, but the generator can only handle 30amps I could program the Apex keep a lot of stuff off(like most of the lighting and heating). But when the EB832s get power when the generator comes online can I trust they will never ask for the full 80amps?

Appreciate your advice and feedback here.

[KrazyKuch]

You'll have to go through your logs and pick the equipment that you would like to run during a power outage. Then you can add up their current draw from the apex graphs...everything you don't want to start up during a power outage set fallback to OFF.

The stuff you want to run put in some delayed start times so that not everything is trying to start at once

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[TerraReef]

I understand totaling up the load which unfortunately is a little more complicated then looking at a graph. This is a new build and I have to go by the manufacturers claims. Neither the Apex nor any of the equipment has been purchased yet.

I also understand, agree, and appreciate delayed start times so not everything surges on at the same time. This is almost always a crucial part of our installations with large reef tanks.

But if the EB832 is not getting power from where it's three pronged cord is plugged in will everything that has the line Fallback OFF be instantly off? Or will they possibly be off 1-2 seconds later?

[KrazyKuch]

I understand totaling up the load which unfortunately is a little more complicated then looking at a graph. This is a new build and I have to go by the manufacturers claims. Neither the Apex nor any of the equipment has been purchased yet.

I also understand, agree, and appreciate delayed start times so not everything surges on at the same time. This is almost always a crucial part of our installations with large reef tanks.

But if the EB832 is not getting power from where it's three pronged cord is plugged in will everything that has the line Fallback OFF be instantly off? Or will they possibly be off 1-2 seconds later?

Not sure on that, never really tried...an option you could do is get a small ups and have 1 power bar plugged into it, that way the apex doesn't power down on loss of power and can switch all the loads off before the generator fires up

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[RussM]

The Fallback setting does not kick in upon power loss to the EnergyBar. Fallback only applies when a module cannot communicate with the Apex base.

[TerraReef]

Hey Russ,
I would greatly appreciate your feedback here.
As per my original question:

when the EB832s get power when the generator comes online can I trust they will never ask for the full 80amps?

I just need to be sure if the tank is usually using 80amps, but the tank can survive off of 30 amps, that it is ok to tell the general contractor I just need 30 amps from the generator. I don't want to overload the generator.

[TerraReef]

I am guessing either I have no phrased the question clearly and no one understands what I mean or it is the case that I can't rely on the Apex here and the generator has to be 80amps due to limitations with the Neptune Apex. :-(

[RussM]

...when the EB832s get power when the generator comes online can I trust they will never ask for the full 80amps?

Jon, my sometimes-irascible old friend and fellow Philly-area native , I scratched my head quite a few times while trying to figure out what you meant by this. So I finally came to the conclusion that what you are asking for is something like this: "How can I program the Apex so that when the aquarium goes on generator power, the total AC power load is less than 30 Amps?"

Since you will have the Apex equipped with a 12v adapter plugged into an outlet that isn’t on the generator, you will need to enable the Power Monitor feature on the Misc setting page. This will turn the Apex's aux power input into a power loss detector. If 120VAC power is lost to the 12v adapter, the Apex can then sense this loss, and if programmed properly, can shut off the outlets that you don't want to be powered by the generator.

In each outlet that should not be ON during a normal power outage/generator ON period, add this as the last program line:

If Power Apex OFF ### Then OFF

Replace ### with a suitable value in minutes. The ### represents how long the outlet will stay in the OFF state after normal power is restored. You can use this to stagger when the outlets come back ON... 000 would allow the outlet to come back on as soon as normal power is restored; 0005 would hold the outlet off for an additional 5 minutes after power is restored. If you use any Defer xxxx The ON statements, remember that the Defer time will be added to the time (if any) specified in the If Power Apex line

There's a second part here to consider as well - handling of the outlets that you want to be on while the generator is running. It might or might not be a big deal for such outlets to come on all at the same time as soon as the generator is producing power. But if you want to delay certain equipment from powering up as soon as the generator kicks in, you can use a similar concept:

If Power EnergyBar_name OFF ### Then OFF

You will need to carefully plan this out once you know the power load of each device you will have plugged into the EnergyBars. Me, I would use a spreadsheet to list all equipment, their max power draw, any dependencies (i.e., the piece of equipment plugged into Outlet X must be on before the piece of gear plugged into Outlet Y can be turned on), and whether an outlet is essential to be on if there's a loss of main power. Then do some magic with formulas to easily calculate the load on the generator under various conditions.

[TerraReef]

Thank you Russ. I always greatly appreciate your feedback in particular as I know you are a pro at this stuff. I often avoid the forums as I always end up sounding rude(although I do not mean to be) and have an odd way of explaining things, but I thought this question may be answered best here. More then anything I am just frustrated with myself for not being able to come up with a clear question. I know how to program things to be on or off based on “If power” and setup delays, but there was another part I wasn’t sure off.

For argument’s sake let us say the generator has a breaker that will trip at 35amps(because we told the contractor we only needed 30 amps on the generator). Let us also say everything is on and drawing 80 amps through the various EB832s when power is lost. Then when power is restored many of the EB832s will be blinking and waiting while they Apex slowly reboots and gains control of everything. Will there be a second when 80amps worth of equipment tries to turn on before all the various fallbacks and power statements are evaluated?

[RussM]

The Apex 2016 boots up so fast compared to the classics that it may not be an issue. The "right answer" however is to prevent that scenario entirely by keeping the Apex base up and running during the transition period. I'd add a 1LINK module and plug its power supply into a small UPS - a 500VA UPS should do nicely. This will keep the 1LINK powered up, which in turn will supply power via Aquabus to the Apex and the circuitry in the EB832s, keeping them alive and then there will be no brief period where the EB832 outlets might be in an indeterminate state.

[TerraReef]

Thank you Russ. Greatly appreciated. I suspected a UPS would be wise and already built two into the proposal. I just wasn't sure if they were critically important and wanted to make sure I take all precautions necessary. If my client spends a great deal on a generator which is worthless because I didn't set things up right on my end it would not be good.

Please tell me if you think this is right:

• There is a risk if I were not to use a UPS battery that the full 80amps may be called for and a breaker on the generator would be tripped. (true?)
• The EB832s can switch the state of their outlets from “auto on” to “auto off” if they are not getting power through there three pronged power cord, but are getting some power through a data link cable. (true?)

I do not have a lot of experience with the new Apex 2016 or the 1LINK modules, so that may be part of the reason my questions seem a little dated.

Thanks again.