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Thread: Finnex 800w Titanium Heater (No Controller) Programming

  1. #1
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    Finnex 800w Titanium Heater (No Controller) Programming

    In the past, I've owned Eheim controllable heaters which I set a degree above the desired temperature, but it was controlled to my Apex. My logic was that if my Apex ever malfunctioned/failed in any way and left the heater on, the controller in the heater would shut the heater down. Fast forward to now and I bought a Finnex 800w Titanium heater without the controller to plug directly into my Apex to control. I'm a little scared about this because I always had that fail safe in the controllable Eheim.

    So I'm wondering if you guys employ any special programming to control controller-less heaters. Below is my Apex Heater programming I used with my Eheim. Is it suitable to use on this new Titanium heater? My goal is to keep the temperature at around 77.5-78 degrees without switching on and off too much.

    I set the Fallback OFF in case the Apex loses connection, I don't want it to run the heater because there will be no temperature control.

    Fallback OFF
    If Temp < 77.4 Then ON
    If Temp > 78.2 Then OFF

    Second, would it be advisable to replace my Temperature probe? How often should it be replaced? I believe I've had the temp probe as long as I've owned my Apex which is over 5 years now.

  2. #2
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    Also, given this is an 800 watt heater, should I be running it on outlet 4 or 8 since it is stated they can run 10 amps?

    I just plugged in the heater and it's drawing 8 amps from outlet 2 on one EB8.

    Can anyone provide any feedback?

  3. #3
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    Yes, you can ONLY run it on outlets 4 and 8 ,the relay swithched outlets. Using the triac switched outlets with such a big load will burn the triac causing permanent damage to it.
    Since it seems you want to live dangerously (no heater controller) there is are a few things you can use to help out.
    Because you're relying on the Apex temperature probe, start with a fresh one.
    If you have another module that has a temperature port on it (like a PM2 or a ASM) then use that probe as a back-up by integrating it into the control code. Using your own code from above but renaming the temp probes 1 and 2:

    Fallback OFF
    If Temp1 < 77.4 Then ON
    If Temp1 > 78.2 Then OFF
    If Temp2 > 80.0 Then OFF

    Temp1 will do the regular ON/OFF of the outlet but if temp 1 fails and the temperature rises above 80.0 then Temp2 will shut of the heater before anything bad happens.
    Bear in mind this does NOTHING for a stuck ON outlet control relay. And that's what I mean when I say you're living dangerously.

  4. #4
    Frequent Visitor mil3sdavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon P View Post
    Yes, you can ONLY run it on outlets 4 and 8 ,the relay swithched outlets. Using the triac switched outlets with such a big load will burn the triac causing permanent damage to it.
    Since it seems you want to live dangerously (no heater controller) there is are a few things you can use to help out.
    Because you're relying on the Apex temperature probe, start with a fresh one.
    If you have another module that has a temperature port on it (like a PM2 or a ASM) then use that probe as a back-up by integrating it into the control code. Using your own code from above but renaming the temp probes 1 and 2:

    Fallback OFF
    If Temp1 < 77.4 Then ON
    If Temp1 > 78.2 Then OFF
    If Temp2 > 80.0 Then OFF

    Temp1 will do the regular ON/OFF of the outlet but if temp 1 fails and the temperature rises above 80.0 then Temp2 will shut of the heater before anything bad happens.
    Bear in mind this does NOTHING for a stuck ON outlet control relay. And that's what I mean when I say you're living dangerously.

    I do this exact thing.. I have 3 of these type heaters, two in my main tank and one in my sump. I am running my setup with a PM2 and extra temp sensor. One sensor is in the sump the other is in the main tank. I have them plugged into separate power bars on outlets 4 or 8 using pretty much the exact same code as Simon mentioned. I also have email and Text alerts set up in case one of the relays were to fail I would know as soon as one of the temp sensors detected a high temp.

    The reason I don't use the heaters with built in thermostats is because I have had a couple go bad and kill fish when not connect to the Apex. The built in thermostats just use a relay anyway so I figure running ones with out relays on the Apex isn't any less safe than running one with a thermostat not on the Apex (If anything running multiple temp sensors on the Apex makes it safer).

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mil3sdavis View Post
    The reason I don't use the heaters with built in thermostats is because I have had a couple go bad and kill fish when not connect to the Apex. The built in thermostats just use a relay anyway so I figure running ones with out relays on the Apex isn't any less safe than running one with a thermostat not on the Apex (If anything running multiple temp sensors on the Apex makes it safer).
    Well, there's usually more than one way to skin a cat...
    I prefer having a heater controller fail but be plugged into an Apex controlled outlet. I get the benefit of reduced wear and tear on the EB relay (it's ON unless something goes wonkers) and if the heater controller does fail the Apex can shut down the heater before something bad happens.
    This is my code for a Blueline stand alone temperature contoller and a 500W Finnex titanium tube heater (no built in controller):

    Fallback OFF
    If Tank_T > 27.0 Then OFF
    If Tank_T < 26.9 Then ON
    If T_Comp > 27.5 Then OFF
    Defer 000:15 Then OFF

    Tank_T is the tank temp probe.
    T_Comp is the back-up temp probe.
    With this set-up I have 3 temp probes (one on the Blueline controller, 2 on my Apex) and a failed controller auto shut off which is the EB outlet and code. Nothing is fool/accident proof but this is damned close.

  6. #6
    Regular Vistor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon P View Post
    Yes, you can ONLY run it on outlets 4 and 8 ,the relay swithched outlets. Using the triac switched outlets with such a big load will burn the triac causing permanent damage to it.
    Since it seems you want to live dangerously (no heater controller) there is are a few things you can use to help out.
    Because you're relying on the Apex temperature probe, start with a fresh one.
    If you have another module that has a temperature port on it (like a PM2 or a ASM) then use that probe as a back-up by integrating it into the control code. Using your own code from above but renaming the temp probes 1 and 2:

    Fallback OFF
    If Temp1 < 77.4 Then ON
    If Temp1 > 78.2 Then OFF
    If Temp2 > 80.0 Then OFF

    Temp1 will do the regular ON/OFF of the outlet but if temp 1 fails and the temperature rises above 80.0 then Temp2 will shut of the heater before anything bad happens.
    Bear in mind this does NOTHING for a stuck ON outlet control relay. And that's what I mean when I say you're living dangerously.
    I have a 800 watt Finnex just like the OP's and mine is programed just about the same as that. The main temp control probe is in the sump were the heater is and the second is in the display. Works well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #7
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    Warning

    I also once used an 800W Finnex without a controller and controlled it through my Apex Classic. One weekend, we had a power outage and when the power came back on, my Finnex heater was no longer controlled by the Apex. This happened on the weekend. Monday morning we came into the office greeted by a horrible smell. The water was over a hundred degrees F, everything was dead and we just pumped the whole mess out and threw everything in the garbage.
    The programming was what was recommended here, the fallback was off.
    Not sure why it happened, specifically, but I'll never use another heater without it's own thermostat again.

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