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Thread: EB832 for UK market?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clownfishy View Post
    I have just ordered the Apex so if they release a new powerbar in the UK and do not compensate those that have purchased it with the old powerbar.....I will not be happy..
    Considering Neptune has mentioned that it will definately not be worked on this year and MAY be considered for the roadmap next year at the earliest (meaning the earliest it could possibly be seen is 2 years from now, but likely longer), you would definately not be compensated on a 2+ year old system.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by griff500 View Post
    I'd put money on you being unhappy.
    Do you know something about the new powerbar coming to the UK then? Reference your comment on GHL Profilux, I had a look at the Profilux 4 and I really do like it. I kept flip flopping between the Apex and Profilux 4 but as I do not have a Windows laptop, I had no way of updating the firmware Profilux 4 and myGHL still looks like it has a lot of development ahead of it before it is really usable from a tablet or phone. I hate that I am still receiving the old power bar from Neptune systems but that was the compromise I had to make.

  3. #28
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    I emailed Neptune Systems and received a response that, as you say, they may update the powerbar for the UK in the future but there is nothing planned so at least I can rest assured that I am not buying something that will be replaced in a matter of weeks or months. I still think this is such a stupid way of releasing a product especially as Neptunes main competitor seems to manage updating their powerbar for all countries. However, I opted for the Apex for two main reasons -

    1). Fusion is streets ahead of myGHL and for me, Cloud access and usability are an absolute must.
    2). Apex firmware can be updated from a tablet or phone and as I do not have a Windows laptop and really dont want to run Windows under a visualised system, this again was a must have.

    I do love the look and positive comments people make of the Profilux 4 but these two points for me personally, swung me to Apex. Time will tell if I have made the right decision but I should begin to learn in aprox 1.5 weeks when my new Apex will arrive albeit with the old powerbar!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Considering Neptune has mentioned that it will definately not be worked on this year and MAY be considered for the roadmap next year at the earliest (meaning the earliest it could possibly be seen is 2 years from now, but likely longer), you would definately not be compensated on a 2+ year old system.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  4. #29
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    Have been looking at Neptune for automation but not having the newest energy bar is a pain. Let's just say all the equipment I want to run through the Apex works on 110-240v, which it does in my case, and I'm happy to swap the English plugs to US ones. Please tell me the technical or safety reason as to why one of these wouldn't work with one of the output sockets converted to a US socket to run the Apex?

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japatstic View Post
    Have been looking at Neptune for automation but not having the newest energy bar is a pain. Let's just say all the equipment I want to run through the Apex works on 110-240v, which it does in my case, and I'm happy to swap the English plugs to US ones. Please tell me the technical or safety reason as to why one of these wouldn't work with one of the output sockets converted to a US socket to run the Apex?

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/portable-...ails_container
    The energy bar also has internal power supplies that are rated for 120V, 60Hz that apparently don't play nice even with a transformer that would bring it to 120V, 50Hz. The outlets themselves would work fine on 120V, 50Hz if only DC loads with universal power supplies were plugged in. Any non-DC loads like US AC pumps or lights would fry if used on 50Hz. The only way you could reliably make it work would be with a 240V 50Hz to 120V 60Hz inverter rated 15A output which would cost far more than the energy bar and would still void your warranty.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The energy bar also has internal power supplies that are rated for 120V, 60Hz that apparently don't play nice even with a transformer that would bring it to 120V, 50Hz. The outlets themselves would work fine on 120V, 50Hz if only DC loads with universal power supplies were plugged in. Any non-DC loads like US AC pumps or lights would fry if used on 50Hz. The only way you could reliably make it work would be with a 240V 50Hz to 120V 60Hz inverter rated 15A output which would cost far more than the energy bar and would still void your warranty.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Thanks for that bit of knowledge. Are you saying that if I'm only plugging in DC power bricks, the method I describe would work with that Transformer?

    I guess this is now just curiosity as not being able to plug in AC heaters and anything else down the line isn't great. As is no warranty....

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japatstic View Post
    Thanks for that bit of knowledge. Are you saying that if I'm only plugging in DC power bricks, the method I describe would work with that Transformer?

    I guess this is now just curiosity as not being able to plug in AC heaters and anything else down the line isn't great. As is no warranty....
    No, just that those items would work correctly regardless of frequency (heaters also don't care what frequency is). Because the internal power supplies for aquabus and 24V don't play nice with 50Hz you would have to provide those 60Hz, which is not worthwhile. I agree it sucks that you don't have amps and watts monitoring on an EB6, but your best bet for now is to just add a 1link if you need 1link and 24V ports.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  8. #33
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    Ok, got you. Yeah, a bit of a deal breaker not having amps and watts monitoring. That was one of the biggest selling points for me.

    I need to look into the 1-link and how I could use the 24v ports. My wavemakers are MP40's and I have 2x 15,000 Jecod return pumps. I'm not fully integrated into the Neptune Eco System and don't intend to be as I prefer Ecotech wavemakers and the COR return pumps just won't cut it for the flow I need, unfortunately.

    Come on Neptune, sort us UK/Euro people out with a proper solution!

  9. #34
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    I returned $3000 worth of Neptune products last week when they arrived and I found out about this energy bar issue. I have the cash sitting in the bank but it seems unlikely they will be doing an energy bar for Australia or Europe, pretty poor to be honest.

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    Yeah it really sucks! You’d think that UK+Europe+Australia would be a big enough market to make it worth while.

    That 1 link wouldn’t really do what I want. My DC return pumps can pull 100 Watts each and the 1 link is restricted to 30 watts each output.

    I wonder if changing internals of this energy bar would work? This is a pretty technical question but what in reality would it take for a smart electronics person to do this or are we also restricted by software that controls these power bars?

  11. #36
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    I sold 2 years ago the classic to get the 2016 but when I found out about this energy bar issue I just step back and put on hold the purchase.

    Since then
    I was waiting for the new energy bar to come out and was also flip flopping between the Apex and Profilux 4.

    The P4 power bars do not offer much more compared to the classic Apex energy bar, so stepping to GHL just because of the energy bar was a non sense. Not having the display wattage by plug is not a big deal.

    But the story changes when we want to buy the Wav pumps for example.

    Wav pumps can be bought individually and directly connected to the 832 energy bar without the need of the 1 link module.

    Here in Europe, price of each individual pump 255€. If I want to buy a pair of wav I cannot connect them directly to the Energy bar so I need to buy the starter Kit version provided with the 1link module.

    The starter kit cost 635€, so I need to spend extra 120€ due missing 1link plugs on old energy bar.


    Neptune could provide at least the 1link module or the starter kit at fair price for the non US users to compensate the missing DC24 and 1link plugs available on the 832.

    I've found this discrepency when I place my order yesterday.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japatstic View Post
    Ok, got you. Yeah, a bit of a deal breaker not having amps and watts monitoring. That was one of the biggest selling points for me.

    I need to look into the 1-link and how I could use the 24v ports. My wavemakers are MP40's and I have 2x 15,000 Jecod return pumps. I'm not fully integrated into the Neptune Eco System and don't intend to be as I prefer Ecotech wavemakers and the COR return pumps just won't cut it for the flow I need, unfortunately.

    Come on Neptune, sort us UK/Euro people out with a proper solution!
    Depending on which models the Jebao returns are, you can use the AQLink boxes or the coralbox jebao/apex boxes which convert the VarSpd port signal to something that the Jebao pump understands. They work very well and reliably, I have been using the Jebao/Apex boxes for 3 years and the AQLink's for over a year. I'd recommend them. You would need to check which is needed for your specific pump model.

    1Link is probably not going to cut it for larger flow pumps as they will need more current, the COR15 works with 1Link, but the COR20 needs a dedicated power supply.

    On the power monitoring, I think nearly every UK buyer thought this was going to be on the original powerbars we bought with our classics and it wasn't. Unfortunately its been a bitter pill to swallow to find out that it's still not available for the 2016 model. Maybe it will be on the 2020....

    Quote Originally Posted by The Grumpy Tasmanian View Post
    I returned $3000 worth of Neptune products last week when they arrived and I found out about this energy bar issue. I have the cash sitting in the bank but it seems unlikely they will be doing an energy bar for Australia or Europe, pretty poor to be honest.
    That's unfortunate, but understandable. I hope Neptune will listen to and place more value its international customers. The more feedback like this they receive, hopefully the more they will realise the importance to their customer base.


    Quote Originally Posted by Japatstic View Post
    Yeah it really sucks! You’d think that UK+Europe+Australia would be a big enough market to make it worth while.

    That 1 link wouldn’t really do what I want. My DC return pumps can pull 100 Watts each and the 1 link is restricted to 30 watts each output.

    I wonder if changing internals of this energy bar would work? This is a pretty technical question but what in reality would it take for a smart electronics person to do this or are we also restricted by software that controls these power bars?
    It certainly has been for GHL. I don't know why they only designed the EB832 for 110v use from the outset, a far more sensible plan would have been to design for 240v, it will be able to handle 110v as so many devices do. GHL seem to have done this straight away. Neptune have previously suggested that the certification costs were high. I believe it would cost circa £2500 ($3400) to get it CE certified for the whole of the EEA. Germany may require TUV cert also. Either way, it doesn't seem like a massive investment, hence adding weight to the impression that they need to re-engineer the device.


    Quote Originally Posted by kodo28 View Post
    I sold 2 years ago the classic to get the 2016 but when I found out about this energy bar issue I just step back and put on hold the purchase.

    Since then
    I was waiting for the new energy bar to come out and was also flip flopping between the Apex and Profilux 4.

    The P4 power bars do not offer much more compared to the classic Apex energy bar, so stepping to GHL just because of the energy bar was a non sense. Not having the display wattage by plug is not a big deal.

    But the story changes when we want to buy the Wav pumps for example.

    Wav pumps can be bought individually and directly connected to the 832 energy bar without the need of the 1 link module.

    Here in Europe, price of each individual pump 255€. If I want to buy a pair of wav I cannot connect them directly to the Energy bar so I need to buy the starter Kit version provided with the 1link module.

    The starter kit cost 635€, so I need to spend extra 120€ due missing 1link plugs on old energy bar.


    Neptune could provide at least the 1link module or the starter kit at fair price for the non US users to compensate the missing DC24 and 1link plugs available on the 832.

    I've found this discrepency when I place my order yesterday.
    I'm in exactly the same situation and have held off upgrading to a 2016 as it really adds nothing at the moment. The reason that I would like current sensing is to be able to detect issues with equipment and take action/alarm if needed. I know which won't work in every case, but I would like to know if a device is not pulling current when it should be, or is suddenly pulling lots more than usual.

    I also do not want to spend £170/$230 just to get two 1LINk ports, or to be able to use the COR15.

    If the international 2016 was a full functionality offering with a 220v EB832, I would have committed already and upgraded, ready for the Trident (and obviously committed on this direction). However, since it's not, I have found myself actively looking at the GHL P4 as it does everything I need, plus has a working KH Controller with Ca control coming this year also.

    It's not a decision I take lightly, or willingly as I love the Apex and the GHL is big departure, but I am also feeling like I'm flogging a dead horse in terms of getting Neptune to listen to its international customers, like me. Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.

  13. #38
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    Any update on an Energy Bar 832 for UK 240V being developed?

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    Any news on this?


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  15. #40
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    wow. heavily moderated. the last two posts have just disappeared. where has grimreapers post gone about using the eb832 on 220v sockets?
    C​hris

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris_kitedude View Post
    wow. heavily moderated. the last two posts have just disappeared. where has grimreapers post gone about using the eb832 on 220v sockets?
    That shouldn't be done anyway. The EB832 requires 120V and 60Hz, which would require a frequency/voltage converter that would cost more than the entire apex system anyway. Way cheaper to just get the EB6, add 1link if you want it, and not void your warranty.

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    Yup got redacted and got a PM from admin not to post on the same topic again. Discussion moved to reef2reef

  18. #43
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    thx. interesting read grim! and i have 6 eb's but am eager to explore zombie. :-)


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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by grimreaper View Post
    Yup got redacted and got a PM from admin not to post on the same topic again. Discussion moved to reef2reef
    good explanation on reef2reef there thx! immfor sure will explore this further and report back to you. eb832 on the way atm!



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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    That shouldn't be done anyway. The EB832 requires 120V and 60Hz, which would require a frequency/voltage converter that would cost more than the entire apex system anyway. Way cheaper to just get the EB6, add 1link if you want it, and not void your warranty.

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    I run a eb832 on a UK 230 volt supply using transformer to step the voltage down.


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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by gino555 View Post
    I run a eb832 on a UK 230 volt supply using transformer to step the voltage down.


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    It's not designed for that frequency. The 12V power supply inside isn't rated for 50Hz, which can cause excess ripple and damage the apex. That same issue applies to DC devices that dont have universal power supplies. The other issue is if you say decided to use an American AC pump, you would almost immediately burn up the pump because it doesnt have the correct V/Hz to create the right magnetic field. Just cause it didn't blow up right away doesn't mean it worked.

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  22. #47
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    Same here. You can get a step down transformer for 50 euros on Amazon.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by irayfuego View Post
    Same here. You can get a step down transformer for 50 euros on Amazon.
    That only fixes the voltage and doesn't fix the frequency. Doing this also has the back draw of voiding your warranty since 120V and 60Hz are both a requirement. A step down gives you 120V and 50Hz.

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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    It's not designed for that frequency. The 12V power supply inside isn't rated for 50Hz, which can cause excess ripple and damage the apex. That same issue applies to DC devices that dont have universal power supplies. The other issue is if you say decided to use an American AC pump, you would almost immediately burn up the pump because it doesnt have the correct V/Hz to create the right magnetic field. Just cause it didn't blow up right away doesn't mean it worked.
    Well first things first, don't know which version of the EB832 you are using but on mine its 24v DC. I don't buy the frequency part. Have you actually seen whats inside? The EB832 is a simple enough device. Whatever current you pump out the socket in your wall gets thrown out the AC equipment connectors. The way you can switch them on/off through the controller is by means of these electro-magnetic relays. On these relays is clearly written along-with made in china 125VAC/250VAC/30VDC. So theoretically speaking they can work anywhere on the planet, However in case of of the EB832 they work on 24VDC. So next part is where do we get the 24VDC to run these and the other stuff. That feat is done by means of an AC-DC converter that in layman terms has a specifically designed parallel circuit that detects what type of voltage is coming in and then adjusts accordingly. Its like the really small chargers that come with the iPhone which work all around the planet. Now with the EB832 its more or less the same thing the AC-DC converter is specifically designed to work with dual voltages. Other than that there are really no other places that can go boom. However if you are using it on 220/230/240v and plug in say a skimmer or something designed to work on 110v well then its a different story.
    In my own opinion its not advertised because of licensing issues, and in a lot of places its against the electrical code to use an adapter to convert a UK Plug to US or EU.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by grimreaper View Post
    Well first things first, don't know which version of the EB832 you are using but on mine its 24v DC. I don't buy the frequency part. Have you actually seen whats inside? The EB832 is a simple enough device. Whatever current you pump out the socket in your wall gets thrown out the AC equipment connectors. The way you can switch them on/off through the controller is by means of these electro-magnetic relays. On these relays is clearly written along-with made in china 125VAC/250VAC/30VDC. So theoretically speaking they can work anywhere on the planet, However in case of of the EB832 they work on 24VDC. So next part is where do we get the 24VDC to run these and the other stuff. That feat is done by means of an AC-DC converter that in layman terms has a specifically designed parallel circuit that detects what type of voltage is coming in and then adjusts accordingly. Its like the really small chargers that come with the iPhone which work all around the planet. Now with the EB832 its more or less the same thing the AC-DC converter is specifically designed to work with dual voltages. Other than that there are really no other places that can go boom. However if you are using it on 220/230/240v and plug in say a skimmer or something designed to work on 110v well then its a different story.
    In my own opinion its not advertised because of licensing issues, and in a lot of places its against the electrical code to use an adapter to convert a UK Plug to US or EU.
    The aquabus is 12V and the acc are 24V. I didn't buy the frequency issue at first either but I was told directly by Neptune that it doesn't play nice with 50Hz. I don't know the exact reason why but one of the engineers passed the message along that 50Hz can damage the unit. I assume it's probably a marginally sized filter cap that has good ripple at 60Hz but not at 50Hz, but I don't know for sure.

    Depending on the architecture of a power supply, input frequency can make a tremendous difference. A simple half wave rectifier with a filter cap for example has 20% more ripple with the same capacitor when used on 50Hz and this AC component doesn't play nice with digital circuits. Under light load conditions, it could potentially be within acceptable bounds, but start loading up with extra modules and it can start causing damage and/or misfire transistors.

    Oddly enough, power supplies actually work better if they are designed for 50Hz European standard and then used on American 60Hz systems, but the other way around can tank their performance.

    Another potential issue is the transformer used in the power supply. If the transformer is for example rated for 120V +-10% and 60Hz +-0.5 Hz then when used at 50Hz, the core flux rises 20%. Most transformers can only handle a core flux rise of 25% (from peak thresholds) before damaging the laminate iron, which at 50Hz on this hypothetical transformer only takes 136V to permanently damage the core.

    Also, FYI you dont need to use laymens terms on electrical stuff with me. I have a Masters in Electrical Engineering so feel free to go to town on technical terms.

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