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Thread: Help on PMUP programming for ATO into Avast kalk stirrer

  1. #1
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    Help on PMUP programming for ATO into Avast kalk stirrer

    Ok, need assistance.
    Current state/programming:

    I have my pmup sitting in my rodi container. There is an avast ato sensor (sw1) that has been programmed so that when it closes, it turns on.

    current programming:

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
    If pH > 8.60 Then OFF

    Target state:

    I'm losing 8 cups a day to evap. I'd like to turn the pmup on to cover that but do it little by little across the day for obvious stability reasons. What does the programming look like if I'm also using the above code as a general topoff?

    Basically I believe this is what I am looking to program:
    Part 1:
    Turn on pump for 5 seconds 18x a day (needs 90 seconds to pump 8 cups) avoiding from 12-6pm due to highest PH.
    If ph is high, don't run

    Part 2:
    If the sensor says water is low, turn on pump.
    If the ph is over 8.6, turn off

  2. #2
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    I don't like having ATO systems run on a schedule. But

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    OSC 000:00/000:05/059:05 Then On
    If Time 12:00 To 18:00 then OFF
    If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
    If pH > 8.6 Then OFF

  3. #3
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    I'd agree. But doesn't it have a failsafe where if the sump is already full it won't turn on?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Let me rephrase. Would it be a good idea to have that programmed, or might there be an issue?

  4. #4
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p7willm View Post
    I don't like having ATO systems run on a schedule. But

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    OSC 000:00/000:05/059:05 Then On
    If Time 12:00 To 18:00 then OFF
    If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
    If pH > 8.6 Then OFF
    I agree 100% within your first statement. This is a potentially perilous path... a second float switch would be great to have in this case.


    The program has a couple of issues..

    The Set OFF does nothing, since OSC has explicit ON and OFF states.
    There's a minor issue with the OSC - probably just a typo. The last duration value should be 059:55, assuming the intent is to have each scheduled run exactly on the hour.

    The way this is written, OSC adds the expected amount, and the switch will also allow the pump to run on an as-needed basis. But this is risky... if that switch sticks closed, there's no safety measure and the pump runs nonstop, water gets added until the reservoir runs dry, potentially overflowing the sump and all problems that creates. It's bad enough when too much RODI is added, but much worse when it's kalk.

    Instead, I would use the OSC to add 40-60% more than the typical daily evaporation rate, then use the switch to only permit the OSC operation only if ATO is needed. Adding a Min Time ensures that a full hourly run occurs if one starts.

    Fallback OFF
    OSC 000:00/000:08/059:02 Then On
    If Time 12:00 To 18:00 then OFF
    If Sw1 OPEN Then OFF
    Min Time 000:08 Then ON
    If pH > 8.6 Then OFF

    This way, the switch acts as a backup - if it's stuck open, no ATO will happen. If it's stuck closed, the amount of overfill is limited by the OSC only allowing about 150% of the typical amount per day.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    This is super helpful specific to this tank but also from a general education standpoint. Question-I'm using an avast optical sensor. Does that dramatically reduce risk compared to a float switch? By the way no snails in my reef for these reasons.

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    I have the Avast sensor and it is not optical. It is pressure based. You should be able to have snails larger that the tube you stick in the water. Also the switch will let the level fall a bit before it comes on so it keeps the level in about a 1/4 inch range. In addition to the Avast I would have a float that made sure the water level in the sump did not get too high.

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    Good point. Thanks! What other switch type?

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    A simple float is fine or optical with the FMM

  9. #9
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    So I used the most recent code above and now it doesn't turn on at all. I pulled the float sensor up and it still doesn't come on. PH is 8.2ish

  10. #10
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    Copy and paste the code from the Apex.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by p7willm View Post
    Copy and paste the code from the Apex.
    I copied Russ M's code above.

    Fallback OFF
    OSC 000:00/000:08/059:02 Then On
    If Time 12:00 To 18:00 then OFF
    If Sw1 OPEN Then OFF
    Min Time 000:08 Then ON
    If pH > 8.6 Then OFF

  12. #12
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Help on PMUP programming for ATO into Avast kalk stirrer

    The float being raised will not turn on the outlet - float raised indicates a high level so ATO will not happen. ATO will only be permitted if the switch is CLOSED (which I presume is down based on your earlier posts). And even if the switch is CLOSED, it will only run for 8 seconds per hour during the permitted hours.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  13. #13
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    Sorry-I'll clarify-when I lift, it relieves the pressure of the avast auto pressure switch. tat typically indicates the water level has dropped in sump, requiring pump to activate.

  14. #14
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Argh - sorry, I forgot (again) that you use that Avast switch, not a standard float switch.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  15. #15
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    In order to see what is happening, create a virtual outlet

    vTest
    Set OFF
    If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON

    Create another virtual outlet
    vpH
    Set OFF
    If pH > 8.6 Then ON

    Set Log to enable for vTest and the ATO outlet. Then put the switch under water and pull it up close to, but before the hour, before 11 AM or after 7PM. After the hour put the switch under water again. Let us see the Log file starting with vTest going ON when you pull it up, the outlet not turning on on the hour, and vTest going OFF after the hour. Also look at vpH on the hour and tell us if it is ON or OFF.

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