I'm wondering if I should install the optical sensor so it is always submerged in water, or instead if I should install it so the water comes up to meet the sensor and just touches/covers the clear plastic. In other words, should I install the clear plastic facing to the sky or the ground.
I am thinking that installing it out of the water just above the level that I want my water to be would lead to less maintenance of the probe (cleaning).
Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?
You specifically want it facing up, so it is normally out of the water. The reason is if you install it facing down, the water droplets will cling to the cover and you will get false readings on low water.
The OS-1 may be installed horizontally or with the clear pyramid pointing up.
Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.
Great, so I want it installed facing up.
I still not sure about if I should have it submerged most of the time or out of water most of the time. I am specifically wondering about lowering the maintenance / cleaning that I would need to do on the probe.
Option 1: It would spend the majority of the time submerged in the water and when the water level drops below the sensor then turn on a pump to top it back up and submerge it again.
Option 2: Set it at the high water level and only turn the pump on once per day to bring the level back up. That way it would spend much of the day out of the water.
I've mounted mine horizontally and it's HALFWAY submerged in water. I figure that this way, it will kick on faster than if it was fully submerged. I do however notice it turns on more frequently than my float, which I'm guess is because it is a lot more sensitive/precise than a float switch moving up or down. I'll post a pic of mine in a sec...Originally Posted by Dxpert
Yes, it will be way more sensitive and responsive than a float, due to the mechanical nature of a float.
If I use it as a high water level warning can I then have the pyramid pointing down?
No, condensation will collect on the tip and give a false reading. Install it horizontal for that purpose.
How can you mount it horizontal without drilling a hole in the wall which I rather not do
You could also install it facing up if that helps wth mounting.
How would that work for detection of high water in my sump.... SO would that mean it would not come on till it's ABOVE the sensor?
Yes, that is your choice. Install it facing up and it will go off when the water is above the sensor, drill the sump and install it horizontally, or install it facing down where it will not work.
I noticed that too. I created a virtual outlet with a delay so it's not kicking on/off a bunch when my pump turns on (pump is on an OSC for safety, regardless). Plus, I like to create a virtual outlet anyway so I can log when it open/closes.
And, yeah, for the original question, they gotta be installed facing up like they are in the DDR - but having used these sensors before (or, similar ones from ebay anyway) you definitely need them facing up. If they are facing down, a drip of water will collect on the tip and create a false positive. Had it happen numerous times on my other tank that has the custom optical sensor BoB on it, and I flipped them all over after that. I guess horizontal would work too, but for most of us making brackets, it's usually easier to do vertical, but i guess that depends on the design really.
Xero, I'm in the same boat-- my PMUP on ATO duty from the optical sensor keeps turning on and off too often. Do you mind sharing your program for the virtual outlet and osc schedule?
Thank you in advance!
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Yeah, it's pretty simple.
First, I create a virtual outlet called Sw_Lvl_Med but you can call it whatever you want, that looks like this:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If SwLvlM OPEN Then ON
Defer 002:00 Then ON
This is wrapping "SwLvlM" which is the actual switch name in my apex. Change that to match your switch name and call this outlet whatever pleases you. This means it must stay on for 2 minutes before it actually switches on.
Then the actual PMUP looks like this:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
OSC 000:00/000:30/029:30 Then ON
If Output Sw_Lvl_Med = OFF Then OFF
If SwLvlH OPEN Then OFF
If SwATO OPEN Then OFF
This only lets the pump run for 30 seconds every 30 minutes. The ordering is important here - the OSC must be first and all the OFF statements after it. We're basically disabling the OSC with the last 3 commands. I used to do 1 minute every hour, but with the delays and such added, this has worked well. This also worked better when i ran kalk, as the 30 second limit prevented huge spikes. i don't run kalk anymore so i guess it doesn't really matter as much now
I hear the new auto topoff that will be sold with the fmm will have some logic that remmebers the last 4 too off runs and averages them and puta a limit on the pump at 2x the avg calc value.. can this be programed into the apex somehow??
i think if you have 2x optical sensors and the pmup plugged into the fmm, you can do it - there's like a new wizard to set it up correctly for that. I still haven't tried yet as i haven't mounted my 2nd optical sensor yet, and I also need to redo my sensors to be on port 1 and 2, as i think you need them that way for the ATK mode to work. Once the ATK is officially released, they'll probably release the new firmware for everyone that has the setup wizard thing....
Tasks is available on the latest firmware and fusion updates. It guides you through the process if you have 2 optical sensors and a PMUP.
Additionally there is also new programming you can use instead of oscillating commands.
There is now a "When" command.
Starts OFF and Fallsback to OFF. Low is for when its low on water, this triggers it to turn on, once this sensor becomes covered with water it will turn off. Hi will turn it off if all the other programming and low sensor fails. Le is Leak detection, Em its Empty for when the ATO container is low on water.Code:Fallback OFF Set OFF If ATK_Lo OPEN Then ON If ATK_Hi CLOSED Then OFF If ATK_Le CLOSED Then OFF If ATK_Em OPEN Then OFF If FeedA 005 Then OFF If Power Apex Off 005 Then OFF When On > 002:00 Then OFF Defer 000:10 Then ON Defer 000:04 Then OFF Min Time 060:00 Then OFF
Now the cooler stuff.
If FeedA 005 Then OFF means while the tank is in feed mode the ATO will not run, it will also not run for 5 minutes after the feed has ended. This stops top offs from happening when pumps and skimmers and kicking back on and levels are fluctuating.
The same code is for Apex Power off to let the water level restabilize.
When On > 002:00 Then OFF is your way of putting a time limit on top offs. If you know it normally refills in 1 minute. Set this to be 2 minutes just in case to prevent it running way longer than you usually need. If both opticals fail this will be a digital stop.
Defer :10 Then ON means the sensor must be dry for 10 seconds before the ATO kicks on. If you have a fairly turbulent return chamber increase this amount.
Defer :04 Then OFF makes the ATO run for over 5 seconds to prevent 1-2 second little burps of water.
Min Time 60:00 limits top offs to once an hour or longer.
Tasks are not in firmware. Tasks are a new set of APEX Fusion features, three of which are for use with setting up the ATK. Tasks are already available in Fusion - this was a big part of last week's Fusion update.
The firmware which supports the ATK has already been released too.
Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.
ahh the when thing is cool, i could see maybe wanting to do this for other things as well. i find my high level sensor is usually enough to prevent the topoff from running when i don't want it - then again my oscillate statement was probably saving me there too since it would have to get the timing just right, i actually have a feed delay virtual outlet which gets turned on any time my feed modes do and delays a few minutes before turning off - kinda like my own feed delay thing but it's a little more flexible, i could probably use that to shut it off too.
I still kind of like the virtual outlet for the main ATO sensor because i like to enable logging on that switch so I can see when the ATO sensor is flipping back/forth - i still like the delay on it because otherwise it creates a crap-ton of log entries. It's nice to see the intervals between when my pmup kicked on and when the switch actually said hey i'm low....for me anyway, lol.
Can you do the logic using float sensors hooked up to the BOB?
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Or is the fmm module required?
The logic im talking about is the safety time off of the ato pump if it runs a certain amount of time
Yeah, you can use the When statements in anything, doesn't even have to be ATO specific. My ATO is a mixture of FMM sensors, and regular BOB sensors, and all this works just fine.
The when statements actually turn the outlet hard-OFF, as opposed to just Auto-OFF. So the pump will not run again if this happens. And you can then set an alarm on "if error outletname" to detect that an outlet "errored" this way.
Thanks so much for everyone's input this in itself is a great reason to have an Apex.
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