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Thread: Virtual Outlet Keeps Turning Itself ON

  1. #1
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    Virtual Outlet Keeps Turning Itself ON

    I'm trying to wrap my head around something that just started the other day. This is the first time I've drained my RODI tank so I could mix up a new batch of saltwater after building my mixing station.

    When I drained the tank, the ATO pump was sucking air and tripped my vATOTime outlet because it ran more than 2 minutes. I filled the RODI tank and turned off my vATOTime outlet and then put it back to Auto.

    But for some reason, it keeps going back to ON. When I turn it off and back to Auto, the status changes from "Auto" to "Off". About 2m 30s later, it turns ON again even though the ATO outlet is off and the sump switch is OPEN. None of the other conditions are satisfied. It's just turning itself on for no reason.

    Here is the code:

    ATO


    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If SumMid CLOSED Then ON
    If Outlet vHi = ON Then OFF
    If Outlet vLo = ON Then OFF
    If Outlet vATOTime = ON Then OFF
    Defer 000:30 Then ON
    Min Time 015:00 Then OFF
    If Outlet vTankLeak = ON Then OFF

    If Outlet NSWDos = ON Then OFF


    vATOTime

    If Outlet ATO = ON Then ON
    Defer 002:00 Then ON
    If Outlet vReset = ON Then OFF



    Here is a screen shot of all the outlets the instant it turns itself ON. The ATO outlet showed as OFF the entire time I was watching.

    There isn't anything ON that should turn it on and it's been working just fine for 3 weeks. I'm lost.

    Status.JPG

  2. #2
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    Just a followup. I turned my ATO outlet OFF manually and then turned vATOTime to Auto.

    It still tripped in 2m 30s and turned on.

    Isn't that impossible? ATO was manually turned off and there are no other conditions that would turn on the outlet.

  3. #3
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    It should not matter but if you started out with a Set Off statement, does this still happen?

  4. #4
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    Actually, it doesn't turn on automatically if I add the Set OFF command. I was under the impression that SET commands aren't used for virtual outlets?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderturbo007 View Post
    Actually, it doesn't turn on automatically if I add the Set OFF command. I was under the impression that SET commands aren't used for virtual outlets?
    No, Fallback comments are not needed for virtual outlets. Set commands are needed unless an OSC statement is required or if the operation has both upper and lower boundaries set. For example:

    If Temp < 76 Then On
    If Temp > 78 Then OFF

    ...does not require the set command as you have both conditions covered. If you put a Set Off statements, then the Then > 78 Off is redundant.

    In your case, you do not have any statements that establish the VO to normally be off, except the reset VO. In theory, there was not reason for the valve to turn on, however, you never told it that it should be off either.

    The 2:30 seems to correspond to the two Defer On statements in combination, but I have not reverse engineered the logic to figure out why. Russ is far better than I at that and perhaps he will find something I am missing.

  6. #6
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    I cannot see any reason for this VO to turn on unless SumMid is closing. Is logging enabled for both outlets? If so, what does that show?

    Clsanchez77, the VO is used as a latch and should not have a Set statement.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  7. #7
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    I turned logging on yesterday, but I'm not sure how much help it will be. I ended up turning the vATOTime outlet off so that the ATO would run, so the data might not be very helpful.

    I wasn't able to find a way to log switch state on the BoB?

    Here is what it looked like yesterday when I was messing around before I turned it off. Other than the two times I probably switched the ATO outlet on and off again when I was messing around, you'll see that the ATO outlet doesn't come on. I would manually turn vATOTime off once it came on. vATOTime is the one in the orange color.

    Capture.JPG

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Clsanchez77, the VO is used as a latch and should not have a Set statement.
    You are correct, the intent of the reset VO makes that clear and I overlooked that statement.

  9. #9
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    The intent of vATOTime is that it turn on if something happens and the ATO does not think it filled within a time period. The outlet is designed to stay on until a human takes some action, add water to the ATO tank, unstick a switch, etc. and fixes everything. Then another outlet, vReset, is switched to ON in Fusion for a few seconds. This will turn vATOTime off and have it be ever vigilant again to keep water off the floor.

  10. #10
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    Unfortunately, it isn't working that way. I've turned the vReset outlet on multiple times and waited until the vATOTime outlet is turned off. But if I wait a little, the vATOTime outlet turns on shortly thereafter even though the ATO outlet is still off.

    There is something weird going on here. Although adding the SET OFF command to the vATOTime keeps the outlet off.

    If you look here, the vATOTime (orange) is turning itself on for no reason. At 9:20am it comes on, so I turned on the vReset outlet and turned it back off again. Then around 9:23, the vATOTime turned on again even though the ATO outlet didn't come on. At 9:32, I shut off the vATOTime outlet completely so the ATO would actually work correctly.


    vATOTime.JPG

  11. #11
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    I'm guessing I should submit a ticket for this one?

  12. #12
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    Bump for some help. I'd like to be able to use this failsafe, but it just keeps turning itself on about a minute after I reset the outlet.

  13. #13
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Turn it to manual off until the ATO has filled back to normal levels and you have determined that are floats are operating correctly. Then turn it back to auto.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  14. #14
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    copy the current code for vATO and any other outlets it depends on (copy and paste the actual code from Fusion, do not look at and type in what you see). Set logging on for all outlets involved. Let there be a problem and then copy the log from around that time. Explain what you think should be happening and what it happening wrong.

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