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Thread: PMUP Auto Top Off Siphon

  1. #1
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    Question PMUP Auto Top Off Siphon

    I have a PMUP that is used for my auto top off. It's in a 40 gallon roto-mold tank. The problem I'm having is when the tank is full, the water level is higher than the sump since both are in the basement. When the ATO starts, the sump fills like it should, however, when the pump turns off, the water will not fully shut off. It will drip causing the water level in my sump to rise and obviously cause a flood. I think I'm getting some kind of siphon but I'm not sure where I should put a siphon break because I don't want the water to also siphon from the sump into the tank either. I know it would easy to lower the storage tank but I can't easily do that. It's already sitting 5 inches off of the ground.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks,

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor Alain B's Avatar
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    Does the ATO line in the sump under water ? If so remove it , also you can add , at the highest point where this line is , a " T " , long enough to prevent over spilling and leave this " T " open to air , that will break the siphon .
    Alain

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain B View Post
    Does the ATO line in the sump under water ? If so remove it , also you can add , at the highest point where this line is , a " T " , long enough to prevent over spilling and leave this " T " open to air , that will break the siphon .
    Nope. The sump side is not in the water, however, if it over fills it would be. Where are you suggesting I put this tee fitting? In the water container or on the sump side?

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor Alain B's Avatar
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    Put this T fitting at the highest point on the fill line , also extend another line from the T fitting to a point high enough so water does not spill when the pump is working , leave this line extension open to air . it should break the siphon . Another solution would be to extend the ATO line high enough ( most likely higher then the ATO reservoir water level ) so it will also break the siphon . Depending on your installation , you might need to experiment a bit on this .
    Alain

  5. #5
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    That's actually a great idea. I will try to raise the fill line first because that's the easiest. If that doesn't work, I will use the tee method.

    Thanks!

  6. #6
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    I am having the same issue. I have my line running up about 1 1/2 feet coming out of my resoviour and it stills siphons more than it should and over fills my sump. I dont think I have the luxury of using a "T" and running a line thats higher so it doesnt spill. Are there any other optioins out there that could help?

  7. #7
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcpitts View Post
    I am having the same issue. I have my line running up about 1 1/2 feet coming out of my resoviour and it stills siphons more than it should and over fills my sump. I dont think I have the luxury of using a "T" and running a line thats higher so it doesnt spill. Are there any other optioins out there that could help?
    You don't really have a choice in this case. Your only options are.

    1. Make the outlet higher than the highest level the reservoir will ever be.

    2. Install a siphon break using a tee with either a long run of airline tall enough to prevent water from com8ng out when the pump runs or a shorter piece of airline connected to either a check valve (pointed toward the tee) or a wall mount air gap.



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  8. #8
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    Hi bcpitts,

    I bought the ATK which actually came with an anti-siphon connection which seemed to have solved the problem for me. I think all it is is a coupler with a small hole in it you. Install in the line going to your sump. You just have to make sure you keep the connector in the container but above the water line because the water will spray out of it.

  9. #9
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    you sure it's not just a check valve? i put a check valve on my pmup downstairs and i never had issues with this....

  10. #10
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xero View Post
    you sure it's not just a check valve?
    The device included in the ATK is not a check valve - it is a double-female 1/4" push-fit coupler with a ~1mm vent orifice. That hole is angled so that a small amount of pumped water is directed back into the ATO reservoir. When pumping stops, it acts as an air vent to break the siphon that can form if the water level in the reservoir is higher than the end of the output tubing.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  11. #11
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    I have the same problem but used a spare NC solenoid to cut the flow after the pump shuts off. The T method is much simpler, can't believe I never thought of that!

    In my application, I've got two PMUP units to perform auto saltwater changes.

  12. #12
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    i have an ato on my 125 i simply put the fill line on the back of the tank with a hose clamp(clear plastic) with the hose just barely above water line
    so its not visible when looking at the tank could also zip tie it to one of your return hoses to keep in place
    Last edited by inks; 09-16-2017 at 01:47. Reason: typo

  13. #13
    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    In a Red Sea Reefer, the water level in the ATO reservoir is always higher than the level of the sump. I was very happy to see that the ATK included a decent anti-siphon device. It's a bit noisy, but nothing I can't live with for a few seconds, and it works perfectly, even with the reservoir full to within 1.5 cm of the top. You do have to make sure that the device always stays above the water level; it won't prevent a siphon if positioned below the water level when the pmup shuts off.

    I bought a solenoid valve too, since many people think that's a better solution, but haven't gotten around to installing it as the anti-siphon device is working fine.
    Last edited by rkpetersen; 09-18-2017 at 10:26. Reason: device!

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