Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: FMM Locking up

  1. #1
    New User
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    9

    FMM Locking up

    My newly purchased FMM keeps locking up on me. The status light stays green, but it freezes and does not accept commands/programming until it is unplugged and replugged in.

    FMM Freeze.jpg

    You can see where it freezes because it just keeps reporting a constant number on the flow meter. I have it hooked up with 1 flow meter, 1 solid floor leak detector, 2 OS-1's and a apex solenoid valve with 24 V connector. The biggest problem is that my solenoid valve doesn't open up when its frozen preventing my ATO.

    Is this just a defective unit? Is this a software glitch?

  2. #2
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    213
    Mine is doing the same thing. Has most recent firmware.

  3. #3
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Dubai
    Posts
    71
    Same thing . Very dissatisfied with the reliability of FMM. I run ATO, leak detection, return pump speed control and to activate my back up return pump using flowmeter inputs. All of this automation is now useless. I am forced to revert to manual control and mechanical auto top off. I am buying another FMM and will send this one in for a warranty replacement. If the next FMM also takes a dump then will return FMK - a real PITA.

    I am new to Neptune and this exceptionally poor reliability is of great concern to me. And absolutely depend on this kit to keep my SPS tank within tight control parameters.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    213
    I personally won't rely on it for automation with this problem that's for sure. Hopefully it's just a software bug that they can easily fix with a firmware update soon. Wonder if anyone who was in the insiders group noticed this issue

  5. #5
    New User
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    9
    I played around with it a little more to see what triggered it. It seems to reliably fail if you manually switch the solenoid on and off 4-5 times. I'm sure there are other triggers, but that one was repeatable at least. I unplugged it and plugged it back in last night and it at least worked correctly during my 6 pm 10 minute ATO cycle. Which is the 4th cycle of the day, so presumably it worked for the other 3. I'll update with other details as I find them.

  6. #6
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Dubai
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerses24 View Post
    I played around with it a little more to see what triggered it. It seems to reliably fail if you manually switch the solenoid on and off 4-5 times. I'm sure there are other triggers, but that one was repeatable at least. I unplugged it and plugged it back in last night and it at least worked correctly during my 6 pm 10 minute ATO cycle. Which is the 4th cycle of the day, so presumably it worked for the other 3. I'll update with other details as I find them.
    Its one factor and I replicate your experience that solenoid cycles locks up FMM from my logs.

    However its not the only failure mode and we still don't know the root cause.

    There is another failure mode where the FMM sends a spurious low or high flow signal - and then freezes up. In my logs I can see when a low flow signal trips on my backup return pump or a high flow shuts down my main pump.

    I hope the Neptune engineers are reading this and can provide insight to whether we are tracing down to a hardware flaw or an embedded s/ware bug/s. I would also ask for a modification to code to enable remote restart as pulling both Aquabus and 24V power seems to reset the unit. (Removing power alone won't do this as the Aquabus powers the microprocessor).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Dubai
    Posts
    71
    Here is the error log that shows the spurious low and hi flow trips caused by the FMM. The primary return pump is a beautifully running VarioS 8 that hums constantly at 78% controlled by Apex and tuned for about 1220 to 1250 lph up the return (flow is also diverted via a manifold to reactors and UV sanitizer. My piping has hopelessly too many curves and constrictions to get advertised flow from the excellent VarioS).

    Anyway sitting here enjoying my tank I get a parade of Apex alarms and the primary and backup pumps trip off or the backup pump kicks on when the FMM belches out dud flow rates. (I guess I can add "defer" statements to filter out spurious low and high signals...).

    FYI some background to my design; I trip all return pumps off when flow rate exceeds 1350lph (on the theory that head backpressure is lost due to a catastrophic piping leak) and trip to backup Jecod when return flow drops below 800 lph. The backup Jecod is tuned to 1000lph. To prevent both pumps running the backup Jecod stays off above a return flow of 1100lph. It all works beautifully when FMM is reliable. I will to alter the design with a reversion to using float switches to turn on backup Jecod. There is no reversion I can think of for a leaking pipe until the low sump float switch trips all pumps off.

    (Why this all matters is I travel a lot and need to trust this gear for days at a time).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    New User
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    9
    Another update. My ATo did not fire again today, the solenoid did not open. It appears the 4-5 actuations before lock up is not time limited. my ATO is scheduled to open the solenoid every 4 hours for 10 minutes, 4 times a day. It needs to be unplugged and plugged back in after 5 actuations, regardless of how often they occur.

    Now that I know the cause I can unplug it every morning before work to reset the bug, but that sort of defeats the whole purpose of buying this module... I certainly hope someone at Apex has taken notice of this thread. Is there a way to submit a bug report for emergency fixes?

  9. #9
    Frequent Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilroy, CA
    Posts
    1,043
    Guys, there are a couple of cases we are trying to replicate here and then we can see if a fix is necessary. Every customer's situation is different so if you are having an issue, if you haven't done it already, please submit a support ticket here: https://www.neptunesystems.com/support/contact-support/ This way we can handle each of your situations individually and get them resolved.

  10. #10
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Dubai
    Posts
    71

    FMM Locking up

    Thanks, Terence. Will do. I am new to Neptune with even more kit coming (converting all VAC to DC in the sump powered by 1link 24VDC to make the sump safer for maintenance especially when done by someone else when I am away).

    I have installed a backup ATO for peace of mind.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Dubai
    Posts
    71

    FMM Locking up

    Third issue appeared today. There is only one FMM in my system. FFM_4 in status "!" and a phantom FMM_6 has appeared.

    I WAS ABLE TO CAUSE THIS PHANTOM FMM_6 TO GO INTO STATUS "!" BY CYCLING THE SOLENOID ON AND OFF 4 TIMES. See pic.


  12. #12
    New User
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    9
    I've been working with support and the problem appears to be the SV-1 Solenoid, not the FMM itself. If you unplug the solenoid from the FMM you can endlessly cycle the outlet without problems, it is only when the solenoid is connected to the FMM that it locks up after 5 on-off cycles.

    I don't know if anyone has any other 24v apex accessories they can try plugging into the FMM to see if its solenoid specific or any 24v item plugged into that port.But it might be something to try.

  13. #13
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Dubai
    Posts
    71
    Appears to be a similar issue. No FFM freezing for the past 24hrs. The power supply is unplugged and the 24V ACC is set to "OFF".


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    51
    [QUOTE=Charles0dxb;121172]Appears to be a similar issue. No FFM freezing for the past 24hrs. The power supply is unplugged and the 24V ACC is set to "OFF".


    I have been struggling with this problem for a couple months now. From the start I have had only one flow sensor connected and the unit locks up. Lately it will lock up 15 mins after I reset it. I have a ticket open with Supprt and they are calling next week to do a deeper dive into the problem. Support has been great in trying to find the root cause.

  15. #15
    New User
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    9
    I’m having the same problem. Now trying to figure out what to do as I have to leave town for 4 days.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Clear Lake Iowa
    Posts
    56
    Mine stopped working about a month after setup, trying cleaning them with zero results.

Similar Threads

  1. Locking old threads
    By SuncrestReef in forum Forum & Website Info & Feedback
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-01-2020, 13:42
  2. FMM (ATO) vs FMM (LDK)
    By marineboy in forum Fluid Monitoring Module (FMM), FMK, ATK, LDK, and FMM Accessories
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-18-2019, 07:27
  3. Apex Jr locking up.
    By mcnealmike in forum AquaBus Modules, Probes, and Breakout Boxes
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-23-2018, 09:35
  4. Help! FMM locking up
    By SuncrestReef in forum Fluid Monitoring Module (FMM), FMK, ATK, LDK, and FMM Accessories
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-11-2018, 13:23
  5. APEX(4.31_3B14) Locking up at random times
    By jeremyee in forum Apex Classic/Apex Lite/Apex Jr
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-30-2014, 09:46

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •