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Thread: Unable to "task" setup my new ATK (FMM)

  1. #1
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    Unable to "task" setup my new ATK (FMM)

    So I got my new ATK yesterday and went strait away to set it up. Everything is installed on my system per the Neptune how-to video. When I get to the programing part and go to "tasks"....I get this:

    ATK is grayed out....not bold:





    When I click it...it gives me this:




    Odd. Its asking for 5.00AC and thats what I'm already running.



    Currently the FMM module status light is blue for a few seconds and then blinks orange 4 times....then back to solid blue.

    Any thoughts guys??


    Thanks!!
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  2. #2
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Restart your Apex, then check again about 5 minutes later - it should then show 5.02_5A17 as the latest. Update to that. Disconnect the FMM until you have successfully updated the Apex itself.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Restart your Apex, then check again about 5 minutes later - it should then show 5.02_5A17 as the latest. Update to that. Disconnect the FMM until you have successfully updated the Apex itself.
    I'll give it a shot and report back. As always, thanks for the advice Russ!

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    It worked! Thanks again Russ

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Restart your Apex, then check again about 5 minutes later - it should then show 5.02_5A17 as the latest. Update to that. Disconnect the FMM until you have successfully updated the Apex itself.

    Hey Russ,

    Do you have any idea why my ATO would revert back to "off" after a few minutes even after I set it to "auto"??

  6. #6
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    Any thoughts on this guys? When I set my ATO to auto in fusion it turns on and works well but then, after some time, it always flips back to OFF. So odd.

  7. #7
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    When you ran the ATK task, you were presented a summary as the last step:

    ATK-Task-summary.PNG

    The ATK Task created programming that looks like this:

    ATK-Task-program.PNG

    For the sake of clarity, I had renamed the optical senors inputs for the ATK FMM's ports 1 and 2 to ATK_Lo & ATK_Hi respectively.

    Now, let's compare what the summary says with the actual resultant programming:

    • If the FMM loses communication with the Apex, turn the output OFF. <<--- This is done by the Fallback OFF statement
    • If the low optical sensor is not under water, turn the output ON. <<--- This is done by the If ATK_Lo OPEN Then ON statement
    • If the high optical sensor is under water, turn the output OFF. <<--- This is done by the If ATK_Hi CLOSED Then OFF statement
    • When the output is ON for more than 5 minutes, turn the output OFF. <<--- This is done by the When On > 005:00 Then OFF statement
    • Wait 10 seconds before turning the output ON. <<--- This is done by the Defer 000:10 Then ON statement
    • Wait 4 seconds before turning the output OFF. <<--- This is done by the Defer 000:04 Then OFF statement
    • Ensure the output is OFF for at least 1 hour. <<--- This is done by the Min Time 060:00 Then OFF statement


    In this programming, there are two safety measures. I've color-coded them above and below to help...

    1. If the high level sensor is wet, then that indicates a problem - the water level is too high, so the ATO output is shut off. If the high sensor is wet, and the If ATK_Hi CLOSED Then OFF is TRUE, the ATK pump tile will show the output status as OFF, but the slide will still be in the AUTO position. If you said you want an alert when you ran the ATK Task, you will also receive an alert notification saying "If ATK_Hi CLOSED Then OFF". The ATK output still remains under program control, and if the high level condition is resolved & the high sensor is no longer wet, ATO operations will then automatically continue as programmed.
    2. If the output is on for too long (meaning that the pump has run for more than 5 minutes but the low sensor is still uncovered with water), the ATK output will be forced to manual OFF, program execution will stop, and the Apex will not allow ATO operations to resume until you identify and resolve the reason why the pump ran too long, and you then position the outlet tile's slider back to AUTO. You should also get an email/text alert saying If Error ato-output-name Then ON to notify you that this has happened.


    The ATO pump output being ON for too long (more than 5 minutes) usually indicates that something is really quite wrong, so the Apex takes the hard-line approach of positively stopping ATO operations until you intervene.

    You need to determine WHY the ATO ran for too long (> 5 minutes). Here are some things that might cause the pump output to be ON for more than 5 minutes:

    • the ATO reservoir is empty, and therefore pump is running dry
    • The ATK FMM power supply is disconnected from the FMM
    • The ATK FMM power supply has no AC power
    • The pump itself is not working


    Regarding the 3rd bullet: I've already seen a few cases in which the FMM power supply was plugged into an EnergyBar outlet (which is not necessary or recommended) and that outlet was not properly programmed to be always ON.

    Another possibility is that your system's ATO needs or system configuration are unusual. The programming generated by the ATK Task should be good for the majority of systems, but there will be some fringe cases where the timings in the program will need to be adjusted. One such example is if you are using a Neptune SV-1 solenoid (instead of a PMUP) to control the output of a RO/DI unit directly fed into the sump. The output rate of a low-capacity RO/DI could be so low that it can't top-off the sump level within 5 minutes.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    I am a little puzzled by this behavior too.
    Why would "When On > 005:00 Then OFF" force a manual off? I don't think it does.

  9. #9
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alemone View Post
    I am a little puzzled by this behavior too.
    Why would "When On > 005:00 Then OFF" force a manual off? I don't think it does.
    The when statement is essentially a max time function. When the condition is met, it sets the outlet to manual OFF (or ON If Then ON is used). It's a good failsafe for most applications, but a direct RODI feed or very large sumps should use either a much longer time than 5 minutes or use a different failsafe approach.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  10. #10
    NSI Member eschulist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alemone View Post
    I am a little puzzled by this behavior too.
    Why would "When On > 005:00 Then OFF" force a manual off? I don't think it does.
    You can read about "WHEN" and "ERROR" in this Firmware Release Note section.

    https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...-Firmware-4-52

    When is basically a safety command. In certain instances you want your outlet or equipment to go to full off rather than stay in auto if something has gone wrong for longer than a set amount of time.

    You can also make your own little Feed timers for random things with it as well. I've used the When command to create a control for my lights to turn them to full blue or a set configuration that works best for my camera to take pictures. After its been in that mode for more than 10 minutes it turns the override OFF, just in case I forget to toggle it. I don't want this override to last for hours - days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The when statement is essentially a max time function. When the condition is met, it sets the outlet to manual OFF (or ON If Then ON is used). It's a good failsafe for most applications, but a direct RODI feed or very large sumps should use either a much longer time than 5 minutes or use a different failsafe approach.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Mine switches to off after several runs of > 5 min assuming that that is what turns the auto mode off. Definitely not after one run. The log below shows its running twice for 5 minutes activating the OFF state and triggering the email alarm.

    ATK.JPG

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The when statement is essentially a max time function. When the condition is met, it sets the outlet to manual OFF (or ON If Then ON is used). It's a good failsafe for most applications, but a direct RODI feed or very large sumps should use either a much longer time than 5 minutes or use a different failsafe approach.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    I'm rewording this as I understand it, to make sure I understand it correctly. For my example, I will use this code line: When On > 005:00 Then OFF

    If the ATK is on more than 5 mins, this line of code turns the ATK off, NOT TO AUTO. Therefore, it might indicate that I have set that time too low, correct?

    So I essentially need to know how long my ato turns on each time, and set that time just a little bit over that. For example, if my ato normally turns on for 8 minutes, I could set it to 10. I also could set a virtual alarm to notify me that the ATO outlet has been turned off, and will not be functioning as if in auto.

  13. #13
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Yes. It turns it to manual OFF and stays there until you reset it. It's best to use about double normal fill time so it only activates when there is an actual problem.

    You can be notified when that occurs using

    If Error ATKoutletname Then ON


    In your email outlet.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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