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Thread: Best practice in calibrating the 2016 salinity probe

  1. #26
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    No. I forgot the 2016 apex has a cond probe built in. Then that is not your problem but does apply to other people using a classic apex and PM2 with a similar problem.

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  2. #27
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    I would adjust the temp compensation still though to see if you can get that range down closer to like 0.2. Same principle applies. Increase it is they are proportional, decrease it if they are inverse

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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    I would adjust the temp compensation still though to see if you can get that range down closer to like 0.2. Same principle applies. Increase it is they are proportional, decrease it if they are inverse

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    Ok, just to clarify since I have temp compensation off now. The 2016 model (built in salinity) can correctly apply temp compensation?

  4. #29
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    Yes. Temp compensation uses the temp probe that is in the same module as the probe. In your case the 2016 apex will do temp compensation for your cond probe and pH/ORP probes connected to it. If you ever get an expansion PM1 or PM2 down the road that one will need a temp probe too for it to work.

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  5. #30
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    Zombie - So I can understand this if I have the 2016 Apex & only for 2016 Apex do the following steps to correctly calibrate the salinity probe:

    1. Drop the temp to 77/25C (make sure probe was rinsed in RO & is dry)
    2. Flot the calibrating solution in the sump for a minimum of 15min (30 preferred).
    3. Leave the "compensation" (in advanced) in the salinity probe to default 0.0.
    4. Put the salinity probe in the solution while its still in the sump & wait for a minimum of 5min for settling.

    Anything I missed or incorrect?

    Thanks!

  6. #31
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    Close...

    1. Drop the temp to 77/25C (make sure probe was rinsed in RO & is dry)
    2. Flot the calibrating solution in the sump for a minimum of 15min (30 preferred).
    3. Set the "compensation" (in advanced) in the salinity probe to enabled to a "guess" value (2.2 is usually good for PM2 not sure if it differs on 2016 apex)
    4. Put the salinity probe in the solution while its still in the sump & wait for a minimum of 5min for settling.
    5. Keep an eye on the relationship between conductivity. If cond increases as temp increases, increase the temp compensation by 0.1 until it is basically constant with temperature. If cond decreases as temp increases decrease temp compensation by 0.1 until it is basically constant with temp.
    6. Repeat steps 1, 2, and 4 for period calibration

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  7. #32
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    Got it! and Thank you.

    I also asked this question about compensation with Neptune's support and I'm still not understanding the relationship and why needing to set the temp compensation and it's not clear to me in the emails? When I calibrated with compensation set at 0.0 the Cond probe reads 33.7 in the tank @ 78.4F. When adding the compensation 2.2 it drops to 33.

    I've come to respect & trust all your threads/advice for they have helped me solve a lot of issues as I learn. My question is, I'm I good with compensation set at 0.0 & Cond probe reads 33.7 (in the tank)@ 78.4F or use/set the compensation to 2.2? Either way, will I need to raise my salinity to get closer to the 35ppt mark (?) or am I good within the current range?


    emails with Neptun support in descending order:

    From Neptun's support:

    On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:11 PM, Neptune Systems <[email protected]> wrote:


    If you are wanting to set the temp compensation then I recommend placing the packet of the solution in the tank to bring it up to temperature. 25C/77 degrees is ideal, but not mandatory

    You will need to set the temp range 2.2 is a good starting point and then click save icon.

    Now follow the manual calibration instructions. when it is time to calibrate in the solution place the temp probe and the Cond probe into the pouch.


    Please let us know if you have any other questions, or need any additional clarification.

    Please Reference Ticket: http://support.neptunesystems.com/he.../tickets/79354

    Thank you,

    Neptune Systems Support Team


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ME

    On Thu, 29 Jun at 2:47 PM

    Does the celebration solution & the temperature probe need to be at 25c/77degrees and set the temp compensation in advanced to 2.2 from its default of 0.0?

    Or does that not pertain to Apex 2016?

    On Neptune's forum & YouTube, they advise it needs to be calibrated this way.

    Thank you,

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~

    From Neptun's support:

    On Jun 29, 2017, at 4:12 PM, Neptune Systems <[email protected]> wrote:


    Below is the best way to calibrate the Conductivity Probe:



    How do I calibrate my Neptune Systems Conductivity Probe?

    MANUAL CALIBRATION

    Step 1:
    Start by logging into your APEX Dashboard and clicking on the Three Gears Icon and then the INPUTS Icon


    Step 2:
    Select the SALT(BASE_COND) Option.





    Step 3:
    Ensure you have the Conductivity Probe securely plugged into the APEX.








    Step 4:
    Click on the ADVANCED option.





    Step 5:
    Scroll down and click on the MANUAL PROBE CALIBRATION option.




    Step 6:
    Follow the steps it prompts you to do.

    Air dry the Conductivity Probe. (This can take 1 minute or less to dry) *note: Some customers have used canned air


    Step 7:
    Next Select Ok once the probe has settled (the values not changing after 15-30 seconds)

    *Note the typical settling number range is 60-90 when calibrating Dry


    Step 8:
    Select the Calibration Solution you are about to use.

    *Note the Apex base unit can ONLY calibrate using 53,000, a PM2 module can offer other ranges



    Step 9:
    Dip the Conductivity Probe into that calibration solution. Ensure to gently swish the probe, so as to avoid micro bubbles and the surface of the probe.
    This settle number may not completely stop. But, generally when it's settling down go ahead and click next. (the values not changing after 15-30 seconds)

    *Note the typical settling number range is 200-900 when calibrating in the 53,000 Solution



    Step 10:
    Now you will get this message that you have successfully calibrated the probe




    Step 11:
    Once the calibration is complete your Salt reading on the APEX Dashboard should read around 34.7~35.3 inside of that packet of calibrating solution. In dry air, the probe will read 0. In the solution it will read 34.7~35.3. If it does then the probe is calibrated successfully. You are now complete!


    Please let us know if you have any other questions, or need any additional clarification.

    Please Reference Ticket: http://support.neptunesystems.com/he.../tickets/79354

    Thank you,

    Neptune Systems Support Team

  8. #33
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    The reason for temp compensation is because conductivity changes about 2.2 ppt per degree Celcius change. If you calibrate at exactly 77F the salinity reading should be the same at 77F regardless of the number used for temp compensation.

    With temp compensation disabled, salinity will show 35ppt at whatever temperature you happened to calibrate it at. If tank temperature is different than calibration temp, the salinity measured will be skewed compared to the actual salinity of the tank by roughly 2.2ppt per degree Celcius difference from the temp you calibrated it.

    With temp compensation enabled, If you calibrate at 77 Then you can be assured that the reading is correct at 77 degrees (at least with 0.2 ppt or so). The temp compensation can be honed in by microadjusting the compensation value so salinity stays stable with temp and once you have that value dialed in, the temp your tank is at and the temp you calibrate no longer matter (as long as the temp probe reads the same temp the packet is at).


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  9. #34
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    My reading is coming up 53.6

    Wait, my Salinity probe reading is the following: 53.6 which = 1.0265 which is a little high. I only calibrated it ones and that was about 3 months ago. How long should you go before the next Calibration?

    Tank Info: 120 Mixed Reef
    Apex Classic
    PM2 Module with an Extra temp probe and Salinity probe
    ALD Module with 2 leak detectors around the sump
    2 EB8's
    Screen Shot 2017-07-01 at 9.08.29 AM.png
    Many thanks,
    FLSharkvictim

  10. #35
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    Salinity should be calibrated quarterly at the most, and monthly if it's part of an important function.

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  11. #36
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    I have noticed DC pumps seems to play havoc with these probe's

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonty View Post
    I have noticed DC pumps seems to play havoc with these probe's
    They can very easily depending on the design of the pump. DC pumps often tie the negative to the case of the pump which essentially creates a floating voltage (or stray dc voltage) that is not at the same potential as the negative lead of the conductivity probe. This generates a ground loop inside the probe circuitry and can mess with the readings.

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  13. #38
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    I have been having issues with the new Apex Salinity probe. I calibrate my refractometer and get a Reading of 1.0255 at 78 degrees. I soak the salinity solution packet in the sump water where the temp probe is located,at 78.5 degrees for 30 minutes. I then calibrate the probe and it started off at 36.1. Over the next day the salinity just keeps rising and rising to 37.6. I know this is impossible because I have an auto top off system. I read through this thread and do not understand what the temp compensate is supposed to compensate for. I did have it enabled when I calibrated. I also checked to make sure there was no wiring interference. I am at a loss....

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReeferWead View Post
    I have been having issues with the new Apex Salinity probe. I calibrate my refractometer and get a Reading of 1.0255 at 78 degrees. I soak the salinity solution packet in the sump water where the temp probe is located,at 78.5 degrees for 30 minutes. I then calibrate the probe and it started off at 36.1. Over the next day the salinity just keeps rising and rising to 37.6. I know this is impossible because I have an auto top off system. I read through this thread and do not understand what the temp compensate is supposed to compensate for. I did have it enabled when I calibrated. I also checked to make sure there was no wiring interference. I am at a loss....
    Temp compensation adjusts the displayed value based on the temperature of the tank. The reason for this is because conductivity varies significantly with temperature (roughly 3.5% for every degree farenheight) even though the amount of salt stays constant. This smooths out the readings so that as temperature changes the salinity displayed (which is inferred by conductivity and temperature) stays the same

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  15. #40
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    Ok. So my tank fluctuates no more than .5 degrees at any given time. Average is 78.5. Should the temp compensation be left on 0? And can you explain the constant increase in the reading over a days time? FYI, I got frustrated and recalibrate it today. But would still like to know why it did that. So far it's staying steady at 34.8 after calibrating which is close enough.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReeferWead View Post
    Ok. So my tank fluctuates no more than .5 degrees at any given time. Average is 78.5. Should the temp compensation be left on 0? And can you explain the constant increase in the reading over a days time? FYI, I got frustrated and recalibrate it today. But would still like to know why it did that. So far it's staying steady at 34.8 after calibrating which is close enough.
    Did you let the probe soak for a week before calibration? If not that's why it rose for a few days. Needs to build up a wet film

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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