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Thread: Outlet controlled by pH reading?

  1. #1
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    Outlet controlled by pH reading?

    Hello,

    The pH in my tank is a little higher than I would like for it to be (8.5~8.6). I was reading online that one way to lower the pH is to increase the amount of CO2 in my tank, I have added an air stone in my sump to see if this helps.

    What I would like to do is program one of my outlets to turn on if the pH is above 8.4 and turn off if the pH goes below 8.1. Here is the code I have programed now:

    Code:
    Fallback OFF
    If pH < 8.10 Then OFF
    If pH > 8.40 Then ON
    Will that do what I want it to do provided that my air stone is capable of lowering the pH enough?

    Thanks,

    Keith

  2. #2
    Frequent Visitor Reeffish's Avatar
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    That code will work...however, unless your airstone is connected to a CO2 source you're not going to lower your pH that way.


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  3. #3
    Frequent Visitor Reeffish's Avatar
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    To lower pH I would dose vinegar or vodka


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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etoimos View Post
    Hello,

    The pH in my tank is a little higher than I would like for it to be (8.5~8.6). I was reading online that one way to lower the pH is to increase the amount of CO2 in my tank, I have added an air stone in my sump to see if this helps.

    What I would like to do is program one of my outlets to turn on if the pH is above 8.4 and turn off if the pH goes below 8.1. Here is the code I have programed now:

    Code:
    Fallback OFF
    If pH < 8.10 Then OFF
    If pH > 8.40 Then ON
    Will that do what I want it to do provided that my air stone is capable of lowering the pH enough?

    Thanks,

    Keith
    CO2 will work, but as Reeffish mentioned, this will only work if it is actually connected to a CO2 source. There are a few things that should be addressed before you proceed.

    First, how did you calibrate your pH probe and does it read the calibration correctly after calibration? You should be using a new standard 7.0 and 10.0 calibration fluid. The probe should be cleaned and rinsed in RO/DI before and between calibration points. Also, I believe if the temperature of the calibration fluids is significantly different than the tank temperature, this will throw off the calibration, but I may be wrong about that sensitivity.

    Second, how did you route the wires on the pH probe? The pH probe, ORP probe and conductivity probe are very sensitive to electromagnetic interference.

    Third, how are you dosing your alkalinity? This will also impact your pH. If you are dosing kalkwasser or a alkalinity additive for example in a single daily dose, this will cause a drastic increase in pH. A calcium reactor, conversely, will cause pH to fall.

    Finally and Personally, I don't think this is necessary or a good idea and you could be playing with fire as accidentally dropping your pH when something sticks too low will crash your tank, while leaving the pH on the high side will cause no harm. Also, note the pH probe is prone to errors, interference and cycling and should not be used as a control point for your tank (same for ORP and Conductivity). Its a good failsafe, check a kalkwasser dose (dose pump off at pH>8.5) or for a calcium reactor (CO2 off at pH < 7.8) for example, but should not be used to actually control it. It just is not that reliable and you will cause more damage.

    Heed this word of caution from Randy Holmes-Farley:
    Transient upward spikes are less deleterious than transient downward spikes in pH.
    Source: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

  5. #5
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    What is the outlet controlling? Trying to chase pH can get real dangerous real quick depending on how you plan to control it.

    Was your pH probe calibrated recently (within the last month)? pH probes drift over time and almost always drift up in readings not down.

    The airstone should help without any danger to the tank (even if it's on 24/7). Some other things you can try are pointing your circulation pumps up a bit to cause more surface agitation and running an airline from outside your house to feed your skimmer air inlet.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  6. #6
    Frequent Visitor Reeffish's Avatar
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    The airstone should help without any danger to the tank (even if it's on 24/7). Some other things you can try are pointing your circulation pumps up a bit to cause more surface agitation and running an airline from outside your house to feed your skimmer air inlet.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

    These are techniques to help raise pH. He is trying to lower it.

    I would ensure my pH probe is calibrated correctly before making any adjustments to any water parameters; especially pH.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by clsanchez77 View Post
    CO2 will work, but as Reeffish mentioned, this will only work if it is actually connected to a CO2 source. There are a few things that should be addressed before you proceed.

    First, how did you calibrate your pH probe and does it read the calibration correctly after calibration? You should be using a new standard 7.0 and 10.0 calibration fluid. The probe should be cleaned and rinsed in RO/DI before and between calibration points. Also, I believe if the temperature of the calibration fluids is significantly different than the tank temperature, this will throw off the calibration, but I may be wrong about that sensitivity.

    Second, how did you route the wires on the pH probe? The pH probe, ORP probe and conductivity probe are very sensitive to electromagnetic interference.

    Third, how are you dosing your alkalinity? This will also impact your pH. If you are dosing kalkwasser or a alkalinity additive for example in a single daily dose, this will cause a drastic increase in pH. A calcium reactor, conversely, will cause pH to fall.

    Finally and Personally, I don't think this is necessary or a good idea and you could be playing with fire as accidentally dropping your pH when something sticks too low will crash your tank, while leaving the pH on the high side will cause no harm. Also, note the pH probe is prone to errors, interference and cycling and should not be used as a control point for your tank (same for ORP and Conductivity). Its a good failsafe, check a kalkwasser dose (dose pump off at pH>8.5) or for a calcium reactor (CO2 off at pH < 7.8) for example, but should not be used to actually control it. It just is not that reliable and you will cause more damage.

    Heed this word of caution from Randy Holmes-Farley:

    Source: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/
    My pH probe was calibrated about a month ago using the Neptune instructions. The probe reading also matches my Red Seas test kit reading, so I don't not think the probe is giving false readings.

    According to Randy Holmes-Farley's article "High pH: Causes and Cures" , aerating the water can lower the pH:

    Aerating the water, driving in carbon dioxide, is shown graphically in Figure 5. As carbon dioxide is added, the data point representing the aquarium's pH and alkalinity begins to shift horizontally from the "CO2 Deficient" curve to the normal CO2 curve (green line in Figure 5). Aerating with normal air cannot overshoot, and perfect aeration will land the aquarium on the normal CO2 line. Aeration with interior air that may contain excessive carbon dioxide can overshoot the pH target, and drive the aquarium's pH even lower.
    Granted, the amount of CO2 in our home's air is very low, but it does contain some CO2 that would be forced into the water column by the air stone.

    I ran the small air stone I have over night and it had no effect on my pH level. Either there is not enough CO2 in my home's air to help or the air stone/pump is not large enough.

    My newly mixed saltwater gives a pH reading of 8.2 (Read Seas test kit) in it's storage container, with out dosing 2 Part my display tank averages 8.5. When I started manually dosing 2 Part (I have dosing pumps for when I get my base Alk and Cal levels up where they need to be), my pH climbed to an average of 8.62 with obvious spikes when the actual dosing took place. My concern is that my Alk level is still well below my target of 9 (yesterday's manual dose brought it up to 8.68, so that might be close enough for me with the rising pH issue) and that bringing the Alk up to a full 9 and keeping it there will bring my pH close to averaging 8.7+

    I thought I would give the air stone a shot to see if I could lower it some without having to dose something else. I guess I'll try using BRS's 2 Part that is designed to lower pH and see where that gets me.

    I'm not one of the guys that chases numbers around, but I'd like them to sit steady somewhere within the acceptable range.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etoimos View Post
    My pH probe was calibrated about a month ago using the Neptune instructions. The probe reading also matches my Red Seas test kit reading, so I don't not think the probe is giving false readings.

    According to Randy Holmes-Farley's article "High pH: Causes and Cures" , aerating the water can lower the pH:



    Granted, the amount of CO2 in our home's air is very low, but it does contain some CO2 that would be forced into the water column by the air stone.

    I ran the small air stone I have over night and it had no effect on my pH level. Either there is not enough CO2 in my home's air to help or the air stone/pump is not large enough.

    My newly mixed saltwater gives a pH reading of 8.2 (Read Seas test kit) in it's storage container, with out dosing 2 Part my display tank averages 8.5. When I started manually dosing 2 Part (I have dosing pumps for when I get my base Alk and Cal levels up where they need to be), my pH climbed to an average of 8.62 with obvious spikes when the actual dosing took place. My concern is that my Alk level is still well below my target of 9 (yesterday's manual dose brought it up to 8.68, so that might be close enough for me with the rising pH issue) and that bringing the Alk up to a full 9 and keeping it there will bring my pH close to averaging 8.7+

    I thought I would give the air stone a shot to see if I could lower it some without having to dose something else. I guess I'll try using BRS's 2 Part that is designed to lower pH and see where that gets me.

    I'm not one of the guys that chases numbers around, but I'd like them to sit steady somewhere within the acceptable range.
    Ok, Thanks! Using home air aeration to "neutralize" pH, yes, I can get behind that. You scared us when you referenced using CO2 and turning air on. We were all afraid you were going to accidentally carbonate your tank

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