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Thread: Another Salinity Probe Issue

  1. #1
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    Another Salinity Probe Issue

    I'm new to Apex. I just picked up my unit on Friday night. I waited 'till Sat to open the box and get rolling. I took my time. I watched the videos. I read the how to.

    All went well until the salinity probe calibration. I read about the issues with this probe so I thought I was ready. Floated the calibration fluid (my tank is holding steady @ 77.3 f) and followed the prompts in Fusion.

    The first few (3 or 4) attempts at the dry phase failed on 'Acceptable Range'. After finally getting to step two, it failed for the same reason. Now I get the:

    Error
    Calibration Failed. Probe was not able to be calibrated.

    I waited overnight for the probe to dry and ran the calibration again. Same result.

    I waited overnight again for the probe to dry, and ran the calibration again. Same result.

    Faulty probe? User error? Can't say I'm happy to be in the Apex club at this point.

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    You need to rehydrate the probe. Let it soak in your sump for a week and then try again.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  3. #3
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    THe conductivity probe needs to settle in before you try to calibrate it. Depending on which videos you watched, this may not have been mentioned. For example, the BRS videos show this calibration being performed right away. I tried the same and it also failed. If you do a quick search on this forum you will see it is a common issue. I waited a week and did it again, and it game out near perfect. I currently read 53.0 solution at 52.7, which is good enough for me.

  4. #4
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    Great just did this myself. Received the probe, calibrated it and it is off by almost 10. Going to leave it for a week and see what happens again.

  5. #5
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    Thanks. Not sure why this is not clearly laid out in the setup wizard. The probe is in the sump awaiting calibration. I wonder how many people wasted the included calibration packet....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leishman View Post
    Thanks. Not sure why this is not clearly laid out in the setup wizard. The probe is in the sump awaiting calibration. I wonder how many people wasted the included calibration packet....
    A bunch

  7. #7
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    Well sorry for your luck... But, I just received mine in the mail today was going to install this weekend. Guess I know to let that probe soak. In fact I will probably do this to all of them unless someone thinks it would harm one of them ?

  8. #8
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    Soaking them will not hurt. FYI, my salinity probe soaked for about 3 weeks and will still not read correctly. I've pretty much given up on it and just use it to monitor "steadiness" of my salt level with the number it does show. Kind of sucks for a $900 system.

    Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Sorry to hear you are still having problems. Was the support team able to help out at all ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsmize2011 View Post
    Sorry to hear you are still having problems. Was the support team able to help out at all ?
    Honesty, I never contacted them. There are dozens (if not hundreds) of salinity prob issues on this site stating how to troubleshoot probe problems and I've done everything in them with no success. Not sure what support would do. I guess I could have a bad probe.

    Its only read correct twice. Once when I put the temp probe in ~50 degree water (after calibration) it read roughly 35 then when the temp probe wad put back in the sump, it dropped down to its normal ~28 reading.

    The other time was also right after calibration. It read ~35 for about 15 or 20 minutes and then dropped back to ~28 almost instantly. I don't recall if/what I did differently that time.

    Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    I am awaiting new calibration fluid to try again (thanks Neptune for crappy instructions). I'm hoping that 'hydrating' the probe will allow it to work. If I still have issues after all this, I will be calling support.

  12. #12
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    i had to skew my calibration fluid to be able to offset the reading enough to be accurate. I used 53ms fluid and had to add some tank water to it to lower its salinity. Meaning...

    I calibrated like we should with 53ms fluid, then placed probed back into my sump and it would read like 29.5(give or take), or 1.0222. Problem is i know that my tank is at 33, or 1.0249 with a calibrated refractometer. I then tried to offset the temp correction and still couldnt get it close.

    So after a few trial calibrations I was able to get my probe to read what the actual tank is. I had to skew the calibration fluid, this took me three tries to get right or close enough to be able to adjust from there. So on the third try I was able to calibrate the probe with skewd fluid, then place the probe into my sump and got a reading of 32.7.

    From there, i was able to compensation via the apex to bring my probe to where the tank actually is, 33, or 1.0249.


    Most people say they only use the probe to track differences in salinity and not the actual salinity. Which is actually all i use mine for, BUT, now mine is reading correctly from the start, and now i can track a shift in salinity.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FullBoreReefer View Post
    i had to skew my calibration fluid to be able to offset the reading enough to be accurate. I used 53ms fluid and had to add some tank water to it to lower its salinity. Meaning...

    I calibrated like we should with 53ms fluid, then placed probed back into my sump and it would read like 29.5(give or take), or 1.0222. Problem is i know that my tank is at 33, or 1.0249 with a calibrated refractometer. I then tried to offset the temp correction and still couldnt get it close.

    So after a few trial calibrations I was able to get my probe to read what the actual tank is. I had to skew the calibration fluid, this took me three tries to get right or close enough to be able to adjust from there. So on the third try I was able to calibrate the probe with skewd fluid, then place the probe into my sump and got a reading of 32.7.

    From there, i was able to compensation via the apex to bring my probe to where the tank actually is, 33, or 1.0249.


    Most people say they only use the probe to track differences in salinity and not the actual salinity. Which is actually all i use mine for, BUT, now mine is reading correctly from the start, and now i can track a shift in salinity.
    That's not a bad idea I guess. At least that way it is reading close to a number that it should.

  14. #14
    NSI Member Krazie4Acans's Avatar
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    Modifying the calibration fluid results in a non-calibrated probe. If you change the one known, and factory calibrated item in this procedure then you have invalidated the calibration regardless of what reading you achieve. Be very careful in what actions you have your apex take based on this non-calibrated probe in your tank. You would actually be better off having a calibrated number that is way off than a non-calibrated number that is right on.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazie4Acans View Post
    Modifying the calibration fluid results in a non-calibrated probe. If you change the one known, and factory calibrated item in this procedure then you have invalidated the calibration regardless of what reading you achieve. Be very careful in what actions you have your apex take based on this non-calibrated probe in your tank. You would actually be better off having a calibrated number that is way off than a non-calibrated number that is right on.
    Good points as well. It would be nice to have a calibrated probe that actually read the correct reading as well There are way to many threads on this site and others for it simply to be user error. Even if 90% of the posts here are due to user error, that would indicate that Neptune Systems needs to provide better instructions then simply plug it in, put it in the pouch and then into the tank. In fact, NS documentation specifically for the 2016 Apex is quite lacking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazie4Acans View Post
    Modifying the calibration fluid results in a non-calibrated probe. If you change the one known, and factory calibrated item in this procedure then you have invalidated the calibration regardless of what reading you achieve. Be very careful in what actions you have your apex take based on this non-calibrated probe in your tank. You would actually be better off having a calibrated number that is way off than a non-calibrated number that is right on.
    Fortunately enough I use no salinity programming. Only for visual check. So far mine has been dead on for over a month so far; cross checked with a calibrated refractometer.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etoimos View Post
    Good points as well. It would be nice to have a calibrated probe that actually read the correct reading as well There are way to many threads on this site and others for it simply to be user error. Even if 90% of the posts here are due to user error, that would indicate that Neptune Systems needs to provide better instructions then simply plug it in, put it in the pouch and then into the tank. In fact, NS documentation specifically for the 2016 Apex is quite lacking.
    I agree entirely about the lack of full documentation. They really need to include two major things in their documentation that cause tons of headaches.

    1. Probes need to soak to create the film that stabilizes measurement.

    2. Effect of temperature and temp compensation with regard to calibration. People will often calibrate in room temp fluid and wonder why the conductivity is off by 3 or 4 ppt.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    I agree entirely about the lack of full documentation. They really need to include two major things in their documentation that cause tons of headaches.

    1. Probes need to soak to create the film that stabilizes measurement.

    2. Effect of temperature and temp compensation with regard to calibration. People will often calibrate in room temp fluid and wonder why the conductivity is off by 3 or 4 ppt.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    They definitely need something on the temp compensation. By trail an error, I figured out that if I raise the temp comp one full point, it lowers my reading by .2 points. I which I could enter negitive numbers so that I could raise the reading via the temp comp.

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    What temperature should the calibration fluid be when calibrating?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phea2 View Post
    What temperature should the calibration fluid be when calibrating?
    77 degrees the first time with compensation at 2.2. Then raise the temp at least one degree to see if cond stays steady. If it Doesn't, adjust temp compensation so it does. After temp c9mpensation has been "tuned" you can calibrate at any temp as long as the fluid is the same temperature as the temp probe.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  21. #21
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    Brand new too, just got mine yesterday and I'm having problems as well. My first problem was not knowing what probe was what. I was trying to calibrate the ORB probe. APEX needs to label the probe cables. Anyway after I got the correct probe in the solution the probe calibrated, however it too is not reading the same as my refractomter. I wish you could manually offset the probe so it corresponds with the refractomter.

  22. #22
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stintdar View Post
    My first problem was not knowing what probe was what. I was trying to calibrate the ORB probe. APEX needs to label the probe cables.
    Probes are identified by color and the probe ports are also identified on the first page of the Get Started Guide: https://www.neptunesystems.com/getstarted/apexng/ They are again identified later in the Get Started section where you are guided through connecting and calibrating the probes. https://www.neptunesystems.com/getst...-freak-newbie/

    Put your salinity probe in tank water for several hours or overnight, then try calibrating again.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Probes are identified by color and the probe ports are also identified on the first page of the Get Started Guide: https://www.neptunesystems.com/getstarted/apexng/ They are again identified later in the Get Started section where you are guided through connecting and calibrating the probes. https://www.neptunesystems.com/getst...-freak-newbie/
    Count me as another person that thinks the actual probes and connectors should be marked. Its great that they are different colors and that you can go look which is which, but they should really just print the name on the prob when they print the other text/graphics on them.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stintdar View Post
    Brand new too, just got mine yesterday and I'm having problems as well. My first problem was not knowing what probe was what. I was trying to calibrate the ORB probe. APEX needs to label the probe cables. Anyway after I got the correct probe in the solution the probe calibrated, however it too is not reading the same as my refractomter. I wish you could manually offset the probe so it corresponds with the refractomter.
    Do you mean the salinity probe? ORP probes don't require calibration as the pH and salinity probes do so I'm a little confused as to what you are saying there. In addition, I think you will find that a properly calibrated salinity probe will be more accurate and reliable than a refractometer. There are also other aspects to the salinity probe that should be considered such as temp compensations as mentioned in Zombie's post above.
    Chad

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    Another user with calibration problems in here.
    For me it has been impossible to calibrate the probe after being soaking for 2 days.
    I even followed to the letter a conductivity reset procedure sent by customer service, and simply cannot calibrate it.
    Being so many people experiencing problems to calibrate the probe, I would expect better from a 800 bucks equipment.

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