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Thread: heater not working on auto setting

  1. #1
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    heater not working on auto setting

    Hi all,
    I don't know what has changed, but my heater will only turn on in the on mode, and doesn't go on in the auto mode,
    my setting are simple:
    Device: 3_8
    name: heater
    control type:
    Fallback: on
    probe name: tmp
    On temperature: 75
    Off temperature: 83
    what could possible be wrong?
    Thanks
    Rick

  2. #2
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    Does the heater have an internal thermostat? If so it could be set to low and even though the outlet is turning in the heater isn't.

    you could also test the outlet operation by using a table lamp.

    finally, in fusion, when the slider is set to auto, to the top right of the slider it tells you if the outlet is on or off. You can compare this to the actual heater operation

  3. #3
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    By the way that's a huge swing in temperature for your heater. When in auto, the outlet won't turn on u till your temp probe reads a temperature of 74.9 and it,will stay on until the temp is 83.1. I only allow my temps to swing 0.5 degrees from 79.5 to 79.9

    i bet the temp is not below the 75 degree mark so it would never come on

  4. #4
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    What would I have to set the Heater on and Apex to make the apex control the heater? Right now the heater is set to 79 and the Apex is set to
    On: 79 Off:80.5 and the outlet is off in the Auto mode, but works in the on mode.

  5. #5
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpattek View Post
    What would I have to set the Heater on and Apex to make the apex control the heater? Right now the heater is set to 79 and the Apex is set to
    On: 79 Off:80.5 and the outlet is off in the Auto mode, but works in the on mode.
    Because the two thermostats aren't calibrated to read the same temperature. What does the display say the temp is relative to your heater?

    You need to decide whether you want the apex to to control the temp and the heater act as backup or vise versa and what you want the target temp to be and how much variation from that temp that you want.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  6. #6
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    I just checked and Apex says the temps 81.6 and my heater says 81, I'm a little confused on what to do, so here's all the info, the heater is a Finnex digital, which has a red light when the heater unit is working, with my set up in auto mode it turns off the heater completely, which I think is no good, so should I have the Finnex control itself without a safety control which I thought I would get with the Apex? what do you think I should set the Apex heater switch to?

    Thanks...
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Because the two thermostats aren't calibrated to read the same temperature. What does the display say the temp is relative to your heater?

    You need to decide whether you want the apex to to control the temp and the heater act as backup or vise versa and what you want the target temp to be and how much variation from that temp that you want.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  7. #7
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    There are pros and cons to each way. Only you can decide which you prefer.


    Apex controlled heater protected.
    Pros:
    - Allows finer tuning of hysteresis (as low as 0.3 degree swing vs 1.2 - 2 degrees with the heater controller).
    - Allows daily or seasonal changes with advanced code
    - dramatically increases heater life (doubles or triples it) with possivle decrease to energy bar life (only if using 4 or 8 with low hysteresis)

    Cons
    - slightly reduced outlet lifespan
    - harder to determine heater contact failure


    Heater controlled apex protected
    Pros
    - easy to determine heater contact failure
    - heater digital readout always visible
    - slightly increases outlet lifespan

    Cons
    - significantly reduced heater life
    - wide temperature range
    - less control options


    The coding you want for each option is below an I'm assuming a target temp of 79 degrees.


    Apex controlled heater protected

    Set heater controller to 81 degrees.

    Heater 1
    Fallback ON
    If Temp < 78.9 Then ON
    If Temp > 79.1 Then OFF


    Heater 2 (if you have a second one. I highly recommend it if you dont)
    Fallback OFF
    If Temp < 79.0 Then ON
    If Temp > 79.2 Then OFF
    If Temp < 75.0 Then OFF



    Heater controlled apex protected.

    Set heater controller to 79

    Heater
    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Temp > 82 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  8. #8
    Frequent Visitor bigjim's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with that make of heater, but it's been my experience that the thermostat built into most aquarium heaters is only accurate to within +- 2 degrees. I suggest you let Apex control your heater and use the heater's built in thermostat as a fail safe.

  9. #9
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjim View Post
    I'm not familiar with that make of heater, but it's been my experience that the thermostat built into most aquarium heaters is only accurate to within +- 2 degrees. I suggest you let Apex control your heater and use the heater's built in thermostat as a fail safe.
    Temp accuracy is usually +-2 degrees. Temp swing is usually 1.2 to 2.2 degrees.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  10. #10
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    Perfect, Thanks so much Zombie for taking the time and showing me, I'm going to let the heater control the temp with apex protected, I always keep a spare heater ready to go in case of failure and I have been lucky so far in many years.



    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Temp accuracy is usually +-2 degrees. Temp swing is usually 1.2 to 2.2 degrees.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  11. #11
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    Hi, I have a quick question, I set up the heater controlling the temp with the Apex as back-up and set it to auto and the heater turned off completely, could this be a matter of the outlet I'm using on the EB8 which is: # 4 (10amps, relay)?
    Thanks,
    Rick

  12. #12
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    No, the outlet used is not a factor in what you describe. What is the water temperature, and what is the current programming for that outlet?
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  13. #13
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    my apex unit reads 80, my heater reads 80 and the outlet setting are:
    Fallback ON
    If Tmp > 82.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF
    IDK...

  14. #14
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpattek View Post
    my apex unit reads 80, my heater reads 80 and the outlet setting are:
    Fallback ON
    If Tmp > 82.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF
    IDK...
    The program is incomplete - there is nothing to ever turn the outlet ON. Fallback ON does not do that; Fallback is a special command that does not do anything under normal conditions. You can read about Fallback here: https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...About-FALLBACK

    Add a Set ON:

    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Tmp > 82.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Thank you Russ, I'm getting senile in my old age!
    Yes, It is working, Yeah!!

  16. #16
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    I just have an issue of heater failure with both of them in 1 outlet
    I would like to set up 2 heater as heater 1 and 2 outlet
    but I do not where to set Apex controlled heater protected

  17. #17
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    Just a suggestion and I know this is an old thread .....

    Either way, you should add a email alarm setting such as:

    If Temp > 80.0 Then ON
    If Temp < 75.0 Then ON


    That way you will be warned by email of any failure of the heater.

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