How to setup my Apex in case of another failure

[GugsJr]

So I'm not sure if this is my fault for setting up my Apex the way I did or what.

Before I purchased my Apex 2016 I had a different controller ( i won't mention ) I haven't had an issue with. I moved and decided lost a tank on the move ( it was dropped ) they paid me to get it replaced. So I decided to move things around.

I took my 120 Gallon turtle tank and converted it to my reef tank ( which used to be a 93 Gallon cube ) and I put the turtles into an 80 gallon deep blue.

So I took my old controller and moved it to my turtle tank since it didn't have one and decided to go with a whole new system on my 120 reef.

I purchased my Radions, MP 40s, and Apex 2016 with ATK and WXM on July 28th. Setup up transferred my fish and live rock over so I didn't need to wait for a cycle.

Everything was going great. I was really impressed with my system.

Well a few weeks later and oops not so good. This weekend my wife went into labor Wednesday night (8-16-17) and well I didn't have to worry I had my Apex setup and it was running well for 2 weeks.

Well that Friday I go to check my Apex from the hospital and noticed that it wasn't connecting. I checked my Foscam feeds and I do have power but the apex is off ( so I know my internet is ok and no power outage ). No worries I"m only 20 minutes from home. I tell my wife brb need to run home (which worked out great since we forgot a few items any ways).

I get home look at the Apex jump online and press the fuse button on the EB832, everything goes back on. I look at the logs and doesn't seem that anything triggered when the fuse popped. I look at the log and it never passed 4amps total. So I keep an eye on it when I get back to the hospital.

Saturday they tell us we can leave and I notice again that my Apex isn't on. Again I check my Foscams and everything is good. I get back home and noticed the fuse is popped no big deal I'll press it. Well this time it doesn't work. So I unhook everything and plug everything into a few surge protectors.

Well I've been going back and forth with tech support and it seems it's a bad EB832, I need to find some documents to send in so I can get a replacement (still haven't had time since new baby is here and have to go through a few receipts).

So because of these two losses of power on here my fish contracted ich and I've already loss 2 Leopard wrasses, a Pseudochromis, a Japanese swallowtail angel, a misbar clownfish, and a Powder blue.

So my question is is there a way to setup the Apex in case of another EB832 failure or Apex failure?

Instead of the system shutting down can I have it where the relays have power and rely on the heaters own programming? My pump doesn't go off.

The power head and lights aren't a big deal since I shouldn't be away for that long for them to affect anything.

I'm not happy with my Apex currently but I'm not going to stop using it unless I have another big failure so this isn't an Apex is bad go buy another controller post (which is why this is here and not on my 3 fish forums I belong to ). I really enjoy the items Apex has to offer, I've already ordered a second EB832 ( for a little more control ) and the DOS (constant water change) through my LFS, I'd like to know if there is a better way for me to set everything up.

Thank you

[scuzy]

You should set the default state of the sockets In case it lost power. But I'm not so sure on a power surge state where you have to hit the surge switch. Maybe have a power head running off a regular socket instead of a apex socket? Maybe a battery backup for your mp40?

[GugsJr]

You should set the default state of the sockets In case it lost power. But I'm not so sure on a power surge state where you have to hit the surge switch. Maybe have a power head running off a regular socket instead of a apex socket?

That I have done and it did work when I had a power outage. I'm a medical tech (I repair hospital equipment) and I'm guessing when the fuse is tripped it just shuts everything down. So I was wondering what a fail safe way to hook it up would be. I'd hate to have to have my pump and a back up heater not plugged into the Apex kinda defeats the purpose.

[Krazie4Acans]

You can get a power supply for the head unit itself. This will allow you to detect when if the EB832 loses power and send notifications. You can also turn on the heartbeat function in fusion that will inform you that the Apex has lost connection with fusion if the power is out. This gives you several levels of notification in the event of these failures.

If the breaker on the EB832 is popping then all power to it's outlets is off and there is no way to have certain things running unless they are plugged in to another outlet or separate EB832.

[Charles0dxb]

My 10cents worth from hard won experience; no neptune gear is 100% reliable. Outlets will fail on (or fail off in your case). When my powerbar went bad the outlets to the heater and ATO pump failed on, all other outlets failed off. Fortunately the heaters' own thermostat then took over, and backup hardwired float switches stopped to ATO pump and prevented the sump from overflowing.

Other "fortunate" design points is that the primary return pump (a Reef Octopus VarioS 8) is a 36V DC pump and its power supply is independent of the Apex. To restore the pump I just disconnected the 10V control from the Apex.

All the other equipment I disconnected from the powerbar and powered from a powerstrip (skimmer, refugium light on a timer, UV sterilizer) so that was fine.

The powerheads (Neptune WAV and Maxspect Gyre under 10V Apex control) were also in trouble when the powerbar failure wiped out the Apex; WAV's went off but Maxspects reverted to the 12V backup battery and kept some flow going while I figured out a "limp mode". The FMMs were (indeed, are!) a lost cause and even now are startlingly unreliable (note to ATO owners...).

Before I could get Neptune tech support I did figure out how to use all of my gear without a powerbar. I rebooted the Apex, 1Link and DOS & DDR and stripped out all outlet control programming and ran the tank this way for a few weeks. The Apex Controller will power off the Aquabus from the 24V power supplied to DOS and 1Link so keep that in mind. I happened to have a 12V PS that I plugged into the Apex, but its not strictly necessary.

Neptune Tech Support was great. They patiently remedied the failed s/ware back to more or less normal function (FMMs still not working right though :-( ).

Another design addition is a 2000 W UPS with AVR to supply the new powerbar. This has made a huge improvement in reliability.

Finally, my display lighting is independent of Apex (AI Hydra26HD), a good design choice in hindsight.



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[zombie]

Here are my reccomendations for a large tank (120+) that will guarantee you no equipment failure related crashes. Basically you need to ask yourself for every piece of equipment "If this fails ON or OFF what do I need to do to keep the tank alive"

Energy bar failure
- use two or more seperate energy bars (even if it's just an eb4) with critical loads split between (heat and flow)

Breaker trip or GFCI trip
- run energy bars on seperate circuits (this caused my big crash because I didn't do so and didn't have a UPS)

Head unit failure
- set fallback properly, only fallback half of heat and flow, make sure some flow is apex independent

Extended Power outage
- install a UPS on one or more energy bars with enough juice to power for 8-12 hours of only light flow. Set up apex to alert you when this happens

Heater failure
- always use heaters with built in thermostats set a couple degrees above, always use at least 2 and only have at most half fallback ON

ATO failure
- use a mechanical float as a final measure of safety. Program you code redundant with notifications for failures




You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

[GugsJr]

Thank you guys, I'm waiting for my 2nd EB832 to come in with my Dos, just sent my original EB832 to RMA still under warranty since it's only a few weeks old.

Where do I get a power supply for the Apex head unit? Can I pick one up at Fry's? If so how many volts and amps?

[zombie]

Yes. The specs are

12VDC, 500mA, 2.1mm tip, center positive

You can get larger than 500mA as well if that isn't available. The important part is *at least* 500mA, correct voltage and correct tip.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

[Nycluis]

Here are my reccomendations for a large tank (120+) that will guarantee you no equipment failure related crashes. Basically you need to ask yourself for every piece of equipment "If this fails ON or OFF what do I need to do to keep the tank alive"

Energy bar failure
- use two or more seperate energy bars (even if it's just an eb4) with critical loads split between (heat and flow)

Breaker trip or GFCI trip
- run energy bars on seperate circuits (this caused my big crash because I didn't do so and didn't have a UPS)

Head unit failure
- set fallback properly, only fallback half of heat and flow, make sure some flow is apex independent

Extended Power outage
- install a UPS on one or more energy bars with enough juice to power for 8-12 hours of only light flow. Set up apex to alert you when this happens

Heater failure
- always use heaters with built in thermostats set a couple degrees above, always use at least 2 and only have at most half fallback ON

ATO failure
- use a mechanical float as a final measure of safety. Program you code redundant with notifications for failures




You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

i Zombie few questions on this post. I am new to Apex but the GFCI outlets and Circuits, sometimes " separate circuits " is not an option as it can be across the room etc. What ups do you have that backs up 8-12 hours? i am looking for a ups.

how can i setup 2 heaters to work 1/2 on fallback properly? not familiar with coding.. looking to have 2 heaters, have both work together 1 in the am , 1 in the night.

[zombie]

i Zombie few questions on this post. I am new to Apex but the GFCI outlets and Circuits, sometimes " separate circuits " is not an option as it can be across the room etc. What ups do you have that backs up 8-12 hours? i am looking for a ups.

how can i setup 2 heaters to work 1/2 on fallback properly? not familiar with coding.. looking to have 2 heaters, have both work together 1 in the am , 1 in the night.

I use a 1500VA cyberpower. It lasts me 12 hours cause I drop my load to only be 2 tiny pumps are 30% power and the apex itself. For larger tanks, you would need a 2kVA and possibly one with an external battery.

Alternating heaters the way you mention can be done like this example.

Heater 1
Fallback ON
If Temp < 78.0 Then ON
If Time 00:00 to 11:59 Then OFF
If Temp < 77.8 Then ON
If Temp > 78.2 Then OFF

Heater 1
Fallback OFF
If Temp < 78.0 Then ON
If Time 12:00 to 23:59 Then OFF
If Temp < 77.8 Then ON
If Temp > 78.2 Then OFF
If Temp < 75.0 Then OFF

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

[Nycluis]

Thanks Zombie...so you plug in your apex to the cyberpower?

[zombie]

Thanks Zombie...so you plug in your apex to the cyberpower?

I plug in my energy bar, powerhead power supplies, and WiFi adaptor into it. The 12V aux supply in the apex goes in the wall to detect outages.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.