ISSUES with ATK in Standalone Mode

[ReeferGil]

I was in the middle of filming for one of my YouTube videos featuring the ATK. My intention was to show how easy it was to use in standalone mode. One of the big selling points for the ATK was that it was a plug-and-play unit. What I experienced, was far from plug-and-play. In fact it was straight out disappointing. I purchased the ATK about two weeks ago at Neptune Aquatics in San Jose CA.

My first experience running the unit was noting that the PMUP was continuously running. The water level went above the primary and emergency sensor and raised the float valve. It took a long while, before I figured out that sensor's plug in port 1 and 2 were not pushed in all the way. You have to push them in till you actually feel two clicks. It should be noted that the alarm never sounded and the FMM light never turned to flashing red during this process.

Okay, so now things were on track. Submersed the sensor and the pumps stopped. GREAT... so I thought. When I filmed to simulate a dry reservoir by removing the PMUP, the pump ran dry for nearly 5 minutes before the alarm sounded and the pump finally stopped running. I thought, well maybe the FMM is configured to allow the pump to run dry for 5 minutes. 5 minutes of running dry seems like a longtime but oh well, I'm not an engineer.

But the worst came when I slid the sensors above the water line. With the PMUP submersed, power one, all plugs going the FMM pushed in tightly, the PMUP turned on for about 10 seconds and the light on the FMM went green. But 10 seconds later, the PMUP shut off and the light on the FMM turned blue. The bottom sensor was a good 1"above the water line, yet the FMM sensed all was good. I actually filmed this for 30 minutes before I gave up. It's now been two hours and there my #1 sensor sit. Over 1" above the waterline, FMM light blue and no top off running.

I seriously doubt I burned out the brand new PMUP running it dry for 5 minutes. Why would the light on the FMM turn blue, indicating it was in standby mode. Wouldn't that be an issue with the #1 sensor? Is this user error or do I have a unit with known issues?

Any suggestions?IMG_20170906_215549.jpg

[eschulist]

You've actually uncovered a ton of the features that make the ATK a great top off system, you've however assumed a bunch of them are errors.

First yes the sensors need to be pushed all the way in, they wont work or trigger alarms if they aren't reading the water level. When only the PMUP was fully plugged in it just started running because it has nothing to tell it to turn off.

The system in standalone mode is Blue for working but not filling, green means the PMUP is running, red means an error. You will also get a morse code like beep sequence. The number of beeps will tell you which error your ATK has experienced.

• 1 beep will mean your pump has tried to top off your tank or sump for 5 minutes and failed to do so. This means something went wrong and it will stop topping off until you reset the FMM. This is usually due to an empty reservoir like you experienced, or maybe a blockage in your tubing. 1 beep can also mean your tank has ran longer than it usually takes. This means IQ-Fill has learned the average top off time. For example it could take 30 seconds to refill on average. If the next time takes over a minute it knows theres an anomaly and will error. IQ-Fill will only take place after your FMM has triggered at least 5 top offs continuously without being reset.
• 2 beeps means the top high level sensor has been under water for 10 minutes. This is usually due to a siphon problem where water is being drawn out of your reservoir without the pump running, or the bottom sensor has failed and now the top sensor is stopping top offs.

If you had 2 more sensors you could test alarms 3 and 4. The sensor is also dependent on which port you plug it into. If you have a leak sensor you need to plug it into port 3. An optical sensor can be plugged into port 3 and 4 but they trigger their alarms differently. You can use a flow sensor in port 3 and 4 but they'd only work with an apex attached and don't send alarms.

• 3 beeps while having a leak sensor in port 3 means water has been detected and has turned off power to the PMUP. If you get 3 beeps with an optical sensor in port 3 its due to a higher water level. Placing an emergency extra high water level sensor in your sump can be used to alert you of other errors.
• 4 beeps with an optical sensor in port 4 means something ran out of water. This is best used for placing a sensor in a top off reservoir. Once it becomes exposed to air the PMUP shuts off an sends an alarm. Without this sensor a PMUP would continue to run even if the container was empty, like you experienced. There however is the safety time limit of 5 minutes so it wont run forever.

The water level below all of your sensors it most likely due to a different built in safety feature. The FMM will only trigger top offs every hour. This prevents the PMUP from running multiple times due to fluctuations if there was water bobbing in the sump or tank. It also makes sure there is a need for top off by waiting a full 10 seconds before starting the PMUP. If you've been messing with the magnetic bracket to trigger top offs for filming, you need to unplug and power cycle the FMM each time to cause the ATK to run.

I was on the NSI team for the ATK before it was released. Here were some of my tests to show these alarms work in standalone mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6mrDvOYdJM

I don't think you've burned out your PMUP or screwed up the FMM. I just think you haven't given the ATK the benefit of the doubt on running under normal circumstances. After you know how the FMM is working to prevent accidents and flooded floors you'll appreciate the safety features built in.

[ReeferGil]

MOST excellent reply! That all makes sense to me. Coming from having used an ATO with a more black and white reason to turn on or off was the reason I was confused. It's now been overnight. I checked the sensors and found the waterline was closer to the primary sensor. That original 1" gap was more like a 1/4" gap, so it appears the ATK was kicking on every hour like you said.

This is really the only part about the safety features I'm not understanding. If the primary sensor does not detected water, it will only turn on every hour for a few seconds and shut off because it assumes the surface of the water is disturbed (waves)? Is this feature built-in, in the event of accidental contact with the ATK sensors being pushed above the waterline and prevent it from diluting the saltwater with freashwater? I'm going to have to tinker a bit more with the unit before I feel comfortable enough talking about it on video without looking like the rear end of a donkey.

Can port 4 be used for a second leak detector or could it only be used with a low optical sensor?

I really appreciate your help and GREAT video too!

[RussM]

Can port 4 be used for a second leak detector or could it only be used with a low optical sensor?

In standalone mode, Port 3 is preset for a leak sensor, and port 4 is preset for an optical sensor to be used for a low ATO reservoir low level sensor; port 4 could also be used for an optical sensor installed anywhere the sensor being covered with water is the normal condition. The FMM port 1-4 functions cannot be changed when the ATK is used standalone. When the ATK is connected to an Apex, there is a lot more flexibility; for example, you could even connect and use a flow sensor to port 3 or 4.

[ReeferGil]

Perfect! Thanks Russ.

[ReeferGil]

Quick question. If the ATK is connected to an Apex via the aquabus cable, then you would no longer need the power supply connected to the FMM?

[daquan44]

The power supply for the ATK is for the PMUP. Without it you would have to connect the PMUP to the EB832 and program it appropriately.

[iamchadster]

The power supply for the ATK is for the PMUP. Without it you would have to connect the PMUP to the EB832 and program it appropriately.

I have a remote 1Link that is about 100' away in my garage connected to a pmup. The 1link is connected via a 100' aquabus cable that I ran under the house. There are multiple ways that you can configure the ATK and interface it with the Apex. Essentially the pmup will just need a 24v acc port which could be programmed to do what you like based on the condition of the ATK HI and LO sensors etc. Extremely versatile!
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[ReeferGil]

Thanks Chad, that's really very cool to have the flexibility and versatility to customize the unit. I'm looking forward to playing with all of my modules and new Apex 2016. I'm dragging my feet for this next build as I'm waiting to see if the COR will be released sooner than later. I'll be back to see how folks have their PMUPs programmed while plugged into the EB832 or other 24v acc ports. Curious, you still need a power supply going to the 1Link to power up the PMUP? I want to toss the power supply and just go directly into the EB832.