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Thread: ATK not filling

  1. #1
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    ATK not filling

    Hi guys,

    Set up my ATK yesterday using the task in fusion. Updated firmware prior and update module.

    Connected to Apex classic.
    However it's not coming on. Water level is below the bottom sensor now.

    Both switches showing open in fusion.





    Any ideas?


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  2. #2
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    Is the two sensors swapped?


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  3. #3
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    @scuzy sensor 1 in port 1 and 2 in port 2
    Also just noticed in the log it's coming on once an hour for 10 seconds



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  4. #4
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    ATK not filling

    Try unplugging the sensor. Or double check the sensor is set to manual for optical. Sometimes auto detect is whacked for the ports.


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  5. #5
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    Thanks Scuzy. How would I check the sensor settings?


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  6. #6
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    PM sent
    Chad

  7. #7
    Frequent Contributor iamchadster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuzy View Post
    Try unplugging the sensor. Or double check the sensor is set to manual for optical. Sometimes auto detect is whacked for the ports.


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    I could be wrong, but I don't believe models other than the 2016 have the auto-detect capability, or at least I didn't see a setting for it.
    Chad

  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor iamchadster's Avatar
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    How big is the area the ATK is in as far as volume? Is it possible that there is slosh and when you say the water is below the sensor, how far below? So if you take the sensors and slide them up a bit, say a cm or two above the water line does it behave the same? One last things, check to make sure water isn't coming out of the ATO tubing and onto the sensor.

    In one of your posts you point out it comes on every hour and stays on for 10 seconds. That is how the programming is written, but something is either closing that high sensor, or the low sensor.
    Chad

  9. #9
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    Auto config should me under module of fmm and drop down menu for configuration. But I have a apex 2016.


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  10. #10
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    is the power supply in a different outlet then the eb8 i had mine plugged there and it was causing all kinds of issues

    - - - Updated - - -

    is the power supply in a different outlet then the eb8 i had mine plugged there and it was causing all kinds of issues

  11. #11
    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    From the log, it looks like it is working just about right. The Min Time command is only allowing it to work every 60 minutes. During much/most of that time, the water level will be below the low sensor, giving it an OPEN reading, since the atk only pumps water in up to that level and then stops. Evaporation will lower the water level and open the switch again, possibly quickly, depending on your setup.

    I also personally set the Defer ... Then ON command to a considerably longer duration, a couple of minutes. That way, the water level is definitely lower than the sensor, not marginally so, and I can expect the pump to activate for 30 seconds to a minute rather than just a few seconds. The Defer ... Then OFF command can also be used to raise the water level a bit above the sensor by increasing it, although I don't do so for other programming reasons not relevant here.

    Here's the code I use. It activates the atk pump for 30 seconds or so every 40 minutes or so, and keeps the water level very stable and the low sensor closed until a few minutes before the next top off, when it shows open.

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If ATOLo OPEN Then ON
    Defer 002:00 Then ON
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF
    When On > 001:30 Then OFF
    If ATOLo CLOSED Then OFF
    If ATOHi CLOSED Then OFF
    If LeakRO CLOSED Then OFF
    If FeedA 000 Then OFF
    If FeedB 000 Then OFF
    If FeedC 000 Then OFF
    If FeedD 000 Then OFF
    If Output ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF
    If Output PowerOut5Min = ON Then OFF
    If Output LeakDetected = ON Then OFF
    Defer 000:05 Then OFF

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the info @rkpetersen

    I’ve changed some of the coding as below
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Swx8_1 OPEN Then ON
    If Swx8_2 CLOSED Then OFF
    When On > 005:00 Then OFF
    Defer 002:00 Then ON
    Defer 005:00 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF




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  13. #13
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    Isn't the optical 1 is the level and optical 2 the emergency?


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  14. #14
    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    Are you sure you want a 5 minute Defer before it turns off? What that means is that the pump will continue to run for another 5 minutes after water rises to the level of the low sensor, before turning off. Seems like a long time, but it might be ok for your particular situation.

  15. #15
    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuzy View Post
    Isn't the optical 1 is the level and optical 2 the emergency?
    Yes, the high level optical sensor, as well as the 'When On' command, are both designed to prevent accidental runaway filling of your system with RODI water. In theory, neither command should ever activate if everything is operating properly. In reality, the high level sensor is quite close to the low level sensor, and turning down the return pump for any reason, for example feeding, raises the water level above the high sensor temporarily. Largely because of this, I don't have the high level sensor alarmed any more, as I was just getting too many false alarms all the time.

  16. #16
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    Hi all, so my ATK has been running ok. However past 2 days I keep getting error Alarm and the ATK goes to off.
    Help!!!


    Right now I’m about to throw it out the window and go back to my trusty Tunze that’s been faultless for years


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  17. #17
    NSI Member eschulist's Avatar
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    Your ATK is most likely working just fine but its the code you are using that is working against you.

    Right now you have 2 defers. The first is the time it waits before it turns on. It makes sure the bottom sensor is missing water for 20 seconds before it triggers. The second is that it waits 20 seconds after it is wet before it turns back off. This is most likely where your issue is coming from.

    Your top offs also look like they happen in 7-10 seconds. If its waiting a full 20 seconds longer its very possible its filling up to the top sensor and triggering errors.

    The When statement is the safety code that turns your ATK from Auto to Off if it runs too long. I dont really see how that could be the problem as all of your top offs look to be very short.


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  18. #18
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    The slider changing from AUTO to OFF on its own means that the pump ran for more than 5 minutes which activated the When statement and shut down the pump.

    The real question is: what happened at that time that made it run for so long?

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschulist View Post
    Your ATK is most likely working just fine but its the code you are using that is working against you.

    Right now you have 2 defers. The first is the time it waits before it turns on. It makes sure the bottom sensor is missing water for 20 seconds before it triggers. The second is that it waits 20 seconds after it is wet before it turns back off. This is most likely where your issue is coming from.

    Your top offs also look like they happen in 7-10 seconds. If its waiting a full 20 seconds longer its very possible its filling up to the top sensor and triggering errors.

    The When statement is the safety code that turns your ATK from Auto to Off if it runs too long. I dont really see how that could be the problem as all of your top offs look to be very short.


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    Thanks for the speedy reply, so do I need to change any of the coding. As the lower sensor is now completely out of water and the ATK has not switched back on


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  20. #20
    NSI Member eschulist's Avatar
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    Try this. Change the code to

    Defer 000:20 Then ON
    Defer 000:03 Then OFF

    Remove the Min time temporary and push the update.

    Now the ATK will work on demand.

    If the water is below the sensor it should kick on after 20 seconds. And shut off after 3 seconds of being submerged.

    If you remove water it should trigger again after 20 seconds.

    If it works as I describe readd the Min code to keep top offs 30 minutes apart. Based on your log though 60 minutes would be appropriate.

    If your ATK turned itself off it means your When statement triggered because it ran for 5 minutes. Is it possible your container ran out of water? Id recommend lowering your When time if your top offs are usually around 7-10 seconds. Maybe 20-30 seconds.

    Lots of people get upset with the ATK when it gives an error or turns off. I think its nice thats its alerting you of something going on thats abnormal. These are all things that could alert you to empty containers, dirty sensors, clogged tubing, siphon forming etc.


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschulist View Post
    Try this. Change the code to

    Defer 000:20 Then ON
    Defer 000:03 Then OFF

    Remove the Min time temporary and push the update.

    Now the ATK will work on demand.

    If the water is below the sensor it should kick on after 20 seconds. And shut off after 3 seconds of being submerged.

    If you remove water it should trigger again after 20 seconds.

    If it works as I describe readd the Min code to keep top offs 30 minutes apart. Based on your log though 60 minutes would be appropriate.

    If your ATK turned itself off it means your When statement triggered because it ran for 5 minutes. Is it possible your container ran out of water? Id recommend lowering your When time if your top offs are usually around 7-10 seconds. Maybe 20-30 seconds.

    Lots of people get upset with the ATK when it gives an error or turns off. I think its nice thats its alerting you of something going on thats abnormal. These are all things that could alert you to empty containers, dirty sensors, clogged tubing, siphon forming etc.


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    You my friend at are a genius. So I removed the min time changed both defer times updated and it immediately kicked in now the lower sensor closed when it reached it, and clicked off.

    So do I leave out the min time now?


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  22. #22
    NSI Member eschulist's Avatar
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    ATK not filling

    Add in the min time after you know its triggering correctly. Its another good safety measure to keep top off spaced apart and prevents rapid top offs if there is fluctuating water levels. Its hard to sometimes tell its working if the water level is below the sensor. Its likely that it triggered a short time ago and was waiting for the 30 min or 60 min MIN time before it could start another top off cycle.


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  23. #23
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    I have to restart my apex once and awhile to get atk to work again. It still have issues....

    go to the misc tile and then click on reboot and upload it and it start working again...

  24. #24
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    ATK not filling

    Spoke to soon..... so my ATK once again is not filling.
    Lower sensor out of water again.... even if I switch the pump to on to manually fill, nothing. I’m going away for a week on Saturday, and have no faith in this system at the moment.

    Any other ideas guys
    Screen showing the lower sensor in the closed position even out of water and the switch to on and nothing


    Log. Items 7 to 10 are me manually turning on and off but no pump, power is connected.




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  25. #25
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    Clean out the siphon break and check for clogs. Does the pump run with all tubing disconnected?

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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