Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 43 of 43

Thread: UK Spec 2016 Model

  1. #26
    Frequent Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilroy, CA
    Posts
    1,043
    Quote Originally Posted by johnboy9877 View Post
    so can you tell me the difference between the two ? looks like a fair bit. and to pay £820 then to find out im getting an older model i was a bit pissed
    You are not getting an older model and everything they quote on their page is accurate. Just the photo is off. The Energy Bar 6 is a current model just like the Energy Bar 8 (the 110V version) is still a current version and sold. We simply created a newer version for the 110V market - that costs $100 more than the Energy Bar 8 BTW. We still sell the EB8 and many people still buy them. The key factors that the $100 buys you is power monitoring on each outlet and built-in 1Link ports with power supply. Even if we did have another Energy Bar for 240V that had these features, we would still sell the one currently on the market.

    I get it, people outside the USA would like a second energy bar option similar to the one in 110V. It may happen one day. This is no different than the fact that you cannot get all car models from BMW in every country. There are key regional differences. It is not like other products where you simply toss in a different power cord.

  2. #27
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    129
    I guess the problem Neptune now have is if they now release a UK version of the current power bar is how do they compensate those that brought an Apex with the old power bar. I think it is a massive oversight.
    I have been sitting on the fence on buying a controller and was so angry about Neptune's attitude, I was going to buy the Profilux 4 as GHL have considered customers outside the US and provided their new power bar to lots of different countries. However I am drawn to the Apex but I am worried that say 3 months after I buy it, Neptune bring out a UK version of the new power bar and then make me pay for it again.

  3. #28
    Frequent Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilroy, CA
    Posts
    1,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Clownfishy View Post
    I guess the problem Neptune now have is if they now release a UK version of the current power bar is how do they compensate those that brought an Apex with the old power bar. I think it is a massive oversight.
    I have been sitting on the fence on buying a controller and was so angry about Neptune's attitude, I was going to buy the Profilux 4 as GHL have considered customers outside the US and provided their new power bar to lots of different countries. However I am drawn to the Apex but I am worried that say 3 months after I buy it, Neptune bring out a UK version of the new power bar and then make me pay for it again.
    Please read above. If you bought now that is not going to happen. Also, no one is forcing customers to buy upgrades when they come out. And every product, especially tech related products, have upgrade cycles to their lines. Customers buy products when they do because they feel there is function in what they purchase and it has value at that point in time. Worse yet, with other tech you are often faced with more features and a cheaper price - likely the following year - but you buy anyways because you want to watch TV right now.

    I promise you guys I am giving you as much transparency as I can right now.

  4. #29
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    We have never announced a new Energy Bar for 220/240V for 2018. Honestly, at this point, we do not know if it will be on the 2019 roadmap or not. The current Schuko Energy Bar is no where near 9 years old. The current Apex in foreign markets has been price adjusted to reflect not having a more advanced Energy Bar. If a 220/240V Energy Bar with similar features to the EB832 were to ever be part of the system, the price of the system would rise. As it stands now, I believe the EB6 is priced the same as its competitor and has one additional controllable outlet - but I am not certain on this.

    We understand the desires of our customers, really we do. Please understand though that the design for this particular component has many complicated aspects - most of which are not immediately obvious to the customer. This is simply a matter of resources and market size at this point.

    We are not saying this is not something we are leaving behind - just that it is not on the near term calendar.

    Oh, and we do not have an employee yet named Phil
    Hi Terence,

    Thanks for replying. Not sure if it was fat fingers, or autocorrect, but it was Paul who kindly responded.

    I'm curious about your statement that the Apex in international markets has been "price adjusted to reflect not having an advanced plugbar", as the Apex 2016 model in the UK with the old EB6 plug bar and no 1LINK is 41% higher MAP than the US 2016 with the EB832, including power monitoring and 1LINK ports.

    If we add the 1LINK module in here (still missing the power monitoring (£170)) we are looking at 70% increase in price.

    Apex 2016 pricing:
    UK is £820 ($1127.30) at https://charterhouse-aquatics.com/se...arch=Apex+2016
    US is £581.88 ($799.95) at BRS WITH the EB832 power bar that includes power monitoring and 1LINK at https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/apex-...e-systems.html

    (Exchange rate is using a market $1.34/£ rate)

    Even standalone, the EB6 is more expensive than the EB832 ($281 vs the EB832 at $249) Wasn't the Apex released circa 2009 with the EB6 (IIRC the EB8 had power sensing? I could be wrong, I remember seeing it adverised as an Apex feature when I bought my Apex)

    I'm guessing then that the price reductions you mention have not filtered through?

    I believe the GHL plug bars have power sensing built in, have 6 plugs and the system comes in $70+ cheaper than the Apex. I've searched their website and manuals and it seems they have the same spec and feature set for their system globally.

    If there is any way you can prioritise providing an international EB832 with power sensing and 1LINK then you would make your non US customers very happy.

  5. #30
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    California - US Pacific
    Posts
    22,463
    Quote Originally Posted by tastyfish View Post
    Wasn't the Apex released circa 2009 with the EB6
    The first Apex model was released in 2009, but the first of the EB6 variants didn't hit the market until 2013, which, IIRC, marked Neptune's initial foray into the international (outside US/CA) market.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  6. #31
    Frequent Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilroy, CA
    Posts
    1,043
    Quote Originally Posted by tastyfish View Post
    Hi Terence,

    Thanks for replying. Not sure if it was fat fingers, or autocorrect, but it was Paul who kindly responded.

    I'm curious about your statement that the Apex in international markets has been "price adjusted to reflect not having an advanced plugbar", as the Apex 2016 model in the UK with the old EB6 plug bar and no 1LINK is 41% higher MAP than the US 2016 with the EB832, including power monitoring and 1LINK ports.

    If we add the 1LINK module in here (still missing the power monitoring (£170)) we are looking at 70% increase in price.

    Apex 2016 pricing:
    UK is £820 ($1127.30) at https://charterhouse-aquatics.com/se...arch=Apex+2016
    US is £581.88 ($799.95) at BRS WITH the EB832 power bar that includes power monitoring and 1LINK at https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/apex-...e-systems.html

    (Exchange rate is using a market $1.34/£ rate)

    Even standalone, the EB6 is more expensive than the EB832 ($281 vs the EB832 at $249) Wasn't the Apex released circa 2009 with the EB6 (IIRC the EB8 had power sensing? I could be wrong, I remember seeing it adverised as an Apex feature when I bought my Apex)

    I'm guessing then that the price reductions you mention have not filtered through?

    I believe the GHL plug bars have power sensing built in, have 6 plugs and the system comes in $70+ cheaper than the Apex. I've searched their website and manuals and it seems they have the same spec and feature set for their system globally.

    If there is any way you can prioritise providing an international EB832 with power sensing and 1LINK then you would make your non US customers very happy.
    There is no point in trying to make price comparisons between the US model and the international market models. There is no international version and there are many other variables in the supply chain that do not make that a valid comparison - not the least of which is VAT. If you want to make a comparison, do so with the Apex Classic system as sold in the markets outside the US/CA. The difference (about 230 euros) then becomes much less when you consider that the 2016 Apex comes with what would take an additional PM2, a salinity probe, and an ORP probe to equal - and don't forget wifi. (those options cost about 400 euros to add to your classic - not including the cost of a wifi bridge)

    The discussion of why things cost more when you buy an Apex outside the USA is a completely different discussion and one that has been hashed out many times before and is not uncommon with many types of products. You can probably find those threads on this forum somewhere.

  7. #32
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    129
    I agree with the above statement that the UK pricing has not been adjusted to compensate for receiving the older model power bar but to be fair to Neptune, being in the EU, we have to apply US products with tariffs hiking up the cost which is not their fault. What is a little suspicious is that every store sells them for the exact same price which sniffs of price fixing, something which is against the law here in the UK but that seems true of many aquarium manufacturer.

    Back to the point, I think what is actually frustrating non US Neptune customers is that they are not getting the same product.....FACT.....and there is continual denial from Neptune on this point which is rubbing salt into the wound. If it was beyond man to build a non US power bar with the same functionality as the US power bar, just admit this and pitch the price accordingly making it crystal clear to your UK distributor to make this clear when reselling your product. It seems there is continual denial from Neptune that they are not selling non US customers a lesser product.....you ARE! It is also frustrating in that Neptune have no plans to fix this so we will have to use the old power bar forever.

    I will be buying a controller in the next couple of weeks and from what I have read, I really like the Apex and what they have done with Fusion and it is my preferred option at the moment. I just cannot get over the fact that their main competitor has managed to produce their new power bar to work in all countries so wherever you purchase the product, you receive the exact same functionality.

  8. #33
    Frequent Visitor bigjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Carpentersville, Il
    Posts
    367
    What is a little suspicious is that every store sells them for the exact same price which sniffs of price fixing
    The same is true in the US. I was told by my LFS that Neptune sets the price and they have to sell the products at that price or risk loosing their ability to sell the product line. In a way it's good because it keeps the big online stores from undercutting the smaller stores allowing the LFS to compete when selling Neptune products.

  9. #34
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    153
    There is no EU tarrif or import duty on computer equipment or components from the US.

    VAT will be applied at 20% for consumer purchases in the UK.

    To be fair to Neptune, I'm actually more interested in getting a current specification product than the relative price, but as Terence mentioned that the lack of functionality was accounted for in the price, I thought was worth investigating, due to the products being 40% more expensive here.

    Competitors have a homologous specification globally, offering power monitoring on their 6 plug bars, regardless of in the UK, Germany, China or US.

    You know what you are buying and can detect failures in equipment due to the power monitoring. When I originally bought my Apex, TRIAC and power monitoring were frequently quoted as differentiation between solutions. It was only when we bought the units (or read the small print) that we discovered that we couldn't have either (probably swerved a bullet on the TRIAC, granted).

    It would be great if Neptune designed and built their products with the same capabilities globally like competitive solutions are.

  10. #35
    Frequent Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilroy, CA
    Posts
    1,043
    OK, I understand what a group of our users outside the USA customers want in a new product. Really I do.

    I do not agree however with any of the comments on pricing or that they are paying more than they did with just the classic system for what they get. We also do not set prices. However, in the USA, something called MAP does exist - it means Minimum Advertised Price and it is legal here. Elsewhere markets are free to price the product how they see fit. And some charge even more than our suggested prices.

    One last time I will try and explain this another way - with an analogy in another industry. I don't believe I am going to make many of you ultimately happy with this because it doesn't change the facts, but maybe it will at least proved a clearer picture of what I am trying to explain.

    Nissan motors makes cars for many markets. As a fictitious example (so no one focuses on the accuracy of details here), in the USA they make the Maxima model car. It comes in a number of trim packages, DX, LX, etc. They have also recently released, for the US market, a "sport" model, the SSE. Now the SSE has more horsepower, better brakes, and many other features that make it have more performance. It also costs 10% more in the USA. Now Nissan performance enthusiasts in the UK, and elsewhere, are gut-punched that Nissan has not made this model available to them outside the USA. Furthermore, the cost of the Maxima SSE is nearly the same as the cost of the DX model in the UK, for instance. When questioned why they are not bringing the SSE to markets outside the USA, Nissan execs explain that the requirements for certification, safety considerations, etc. make adapting the SSE for these markets extremely difficult and would not only be a costly endeavor, but they would be taking resources away from products with a wider market worldwide. Products such as the Nissan Sentra and Nissan Armada SUV whose latest model updates are currently in pre-production. Furthermore, they say, this does not mean that the Maxima DX and LX are dead products or obsolete. Quite the contrary, they expect those models to continue to be sold for years to come in markets all across the world. Meanwhile Nissan performance enthusiasts still are not happy with Nissans explanation. Also, the Mitsubishi EVO-362 has almost the same 0-100 times as the SSE and is available in the UK at a reasonable price but it doesn't have the creature comforts of the SSE, its new braking technology, the latest in IoT integration to personal electronics and mobile phones or a wide variety of factory-available options.


  11. #36
    Frequent Visitor bigjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Carpentersville, Il
    Posts
    367
    Do you have to pay VAT tax on gifts? If not why not have your uncle Bob in the colonies buy it and ship it to you as a gift? Then buy a US to UK voltage adapter and you're good to go. This way you get all the latest features and you pay the cheaper US price.

  12. #37
    Frequent Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilroy, CA
    Posts
    1,043
    Quote Originally Posted by bigjim View Post
    Do you have to pay VAT tax on gifts? If not why not have your uncle Bob in the colonies buy it and ship it to you as a gift? Then buy a US to UK voltage adapter and you're good to go. This way you get all the latest features and you pay the cheaper US price.
    Many do this already. It will, however, cause the customer to void their warranty.

  13. #38
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by bigjim View Post
    Do you have to pay VAT tax on gifts? If not why not have your uncle Bob in the colonies buy it and ship it to you as a gift? Then buy a US to UK voltage adapter and you're good to go. This way you get all the latest features and you pay the cheaper US price.
    In addition to having no Neptune warranty in region, you'd also have to have US spec equipment, also with no warranty etc etc.

    Terrence, the other side of that analogy is that Nissan continues to market they have a really powerful engine on their latest performance model, but give non US customers a model with half the power (an old Datsun).

    Customers get disillusioned and a feeling that they are solely focused on the US market, discover that Ford, VW, Audi, or whoever has the basic functionality that Nissan has been saying they have for ages (and not making it clear in market that they don't), so they reluctantly abandon the brand and go buy an Audi.

    Audi designed their product to have the same basic spec everywhere and used the right components to do this in all the regions they sell product in. They advertised the RS6 and enjoy growing sales and loyalty from a customer base that wants to have the engine they expect in an RS6 and not one with half the power.

    Nissan tried to get their customers back by saying "ah, but we have price adjusted out models outside the US to compensate" but when customers look, they discover there is a 40% increase in the cost of the Datsun model and that it has half the power (not explained by taxes or imports etc).

    Nissan had a whole ream of great new products that their customers would have bought from them, if only they hadn't been trying to sell them a Datsun (whilst Audi were selling RS6's) and were still customers (having become disillusioned with the fact that Nissan were still trying to sell them a Datsun).

    How far do we wanna go with the car analogies? lol Don't make me tell the DeLorean vs Ferrari story man...

  14. #39
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    129
    Are you sure on import tax,
    just checked and it stated 3.5% duty.
    Quote Originally Posted by tastyfish View Post
    There is no EU tarrif or import duty on computer equipment or components from the US.

    VAT will be applied at 20% for consumer purchases in the UK.

    To be fair to Neptune, I'm actually more interested in getting a current specification product than the relative price, but as Terence mentioned that the lack of functionality was accounted for in the price, I thought was worth investigating, due to the products being 40% more expensive here.

    Competitors have a homologous specification globally, offering power monitoring on their 6 plug bars, regardless of in the UK, Germany, China or US.

    You know what you are buying and can detect failures in equipment due to the power monitoring. When I originally bought my Apex, TRIAC and power monitoring were frequently quoted as differentiation between solutions. It was only when we bought the units (or read the small print) that we discovered that we couldn't have either (probably swerved a bullet on the TRIAC, granted).

    It would be great if Neptune designed and built their products with the same capabilities globally like competitive solutions are.

  15. #40
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    129
    But Neptune did not "advertise" the differences between the models in different countries which is the key problem. I don't understand the problem here. As a company why would you have a differences between countries, just make the power bar work in other countries as your main competitor already does this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    OK, I understand what a group of our users outside the USA customers want in a new product. Really I do.

    I do not agree however with any of the comments on pricing or that they are paying more than they did with just the classic system for what they get. We also do not set prices. However, in the USA, something called MAP does exist - it means Minimum Advertised Price and it is legal here. Elsewhere markets are free to price the product how they see fit. And some charge even more than our suggested prices.

    One last time I will try and explain this another way - with an analogy in another industry. I don't believe I am going to make many of you ultimately happy with this because it doesn't change the facts, but maybe it will at least proved a clearer picture of what I am trying to explain.

    Nissan motors makes cars for many markets. As a fictitious example (so no one focuses on the accuracy of details here), in the USA they make the Maxima model car. It comes in a number of trim packages, DX, LX, etc. They have also recently released, for the US market, a "sport" model, the SSE. Now the SSE has more horsepower, better brakes, and many other features that make it have more performance. It also costs 10% more in the USA. Now Nissan performance enthusiasts in the UK, and elsewhere, are gut-punched that Nissan has not made this model available to them outside the USA. Furthermore, the cost of the Maxima SSE is nearly the same as the cost of the DX model in the UK, for instance. When questioned why they are not bringing the SSE to markets outside the USA, Nissan execs explain that the requirements for certification, safety considerations, etc. make adapting the SSE for these markets extremely difficult and would not only be a costly endeavor, but they would be taking resources away from products with a wider market worldwide. Products such as the Nissan Sentra and Nissan Armada SUV whose latest model updates are currently in pre-production. Furthermore, they say, this does not mean that the Maxima DX and LX are dead products or obsolete. Quite the contrary, they expect those models to continue to be sold for years to come in markets all across the world. Meanwhile Nissan performance enthusiasts still are not happy with Nissans explanation. Also, the Mitsubishi EVO-362 has almost the same 0-100 times as the SSE and is available in the UK at a reasonable price but it doesn't have the creature comforts of the SSE, its new braking technology, the latest in IoT integration to personal electronics and mobile phones or a wide variety of factory-available options.


  16. #41
    New User
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Clownfishy View Post
    Are you sure on import tax,
    just checked and it stated 3.5% duty.
    Three is another tax called VAT, depending on country its about 20% - on poland its 23%.

    Wysłane z mojego XT1650 przy użyciu Tapatalka

  17. #42
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by Clownfishy View Post
    Are you sure on import tax,
    just checked and it stated 3.5% duty.
    I’m presuming an Apex is classified under 847130000, and not shoes https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov...ar=2018#import

    They should be zero rated, but VAT to pay on UK

  18. #43
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    129
    Have a look at the chapter notes particularly section 5, I think it may be caught by that. I am actually going to contact them on Monday to see if there is duty as importing one maybe an option. Although looking at the statement above, Neptunre may not cover this under warranty.....you just cant win!
    Quote Originally Posted by ggiewon View Post
    Three is another tax called VAT, depending on country its about 20% - on poland its 23%.

    Wysłane z mojego XT1650 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Question: Upgrade from classic to 2016 model
    By bescher in forum A2 Apex/ApexEL and A3 Apex Pro/Apex/Apex Jr
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-01-2018, 06:59
  2. Painless classic to 2016 model
    By jamiequ in forum A2 Apex/ApexEL and A3 Apex Pro/Apex/Apex Jr
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-15-2018, 05:56
  3. Help! Help! I can't connect my WXM to Apex (2016 Model)
    By RoyalReef in forum A2 Apex/ApexEL and A3 Apex Pro/Apex/Apex Jr
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-21-2017, 17:04
  4. Is there Documentation for the Apex 2016 Model?
    By Salty Hands in forum A2 Apex/ApexEL and A3 Apex Pro/Apex/Apex Jr
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-24-2017, 21:34
  5. Question: Any chance to use a Apex (2016 Model) in HK
    By timhhl in forum A2 Apex/ApexEL and A3 Apex Pro/Apex/Apex Jr
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-03-2016, 08:14

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •