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Thread: ATK Over filling

  1. #1
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    ATK Over filling

    I recently hooked up my 2016 Apex and connected the ATK module for my ATO. Since installing it, I have had issues with it over filling until the float valve us reached. The siphon is installed and operates correctly. I figured I would adjust the programming slightly. Can someone double check me on this.




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  2. #2
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Changing the programming was not the best thing to do to - at best, it's a workaround, not a solution. And increasing the Defer Then OFF time (meaning it will run longer than the original ATK Task-generated programming) potentially makes matters worse.

    Let's focus on determining why you have an overfill condition first... we'll test both sensors just to be thorough.

    The first thing to test is the upper optical sensor. Use Apex Local, not Apex Fusion. Slide the PMUP tile to OFF so the pump doesn't run while testing. Move the ATK mount up so both sensors are out of the water. Look at the LSenso and HSenso tiles - they should both indicate OPEN. Do they? The Local Dashboard refreshes every 15 seconds, so allow at least that much time when watching for the tiles to change state.

    If they both do show OPEN, move the ATK mount down so that the water level is exactly in the middle of the two sensors. LSenso should now show CLOSED and HSenso OPEN. Do they?

    If LSenso is CLOSED and HSenso is OPEN, move the mount down again so that the upper sensor is completely covered. LSenso should still show CLOSED and HSenso should now show CLOSED too. Do they?

    If you do not see the expected indexations, post exactly what the results of the testing were.
    I'm not a Neptune support rep. Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Changing the programming was not the best thing to do to - at best, it's a workaround, not a solution. And increasing the Defer Then OFF time (meaning it will run longer than the original ATK Task-generated programming) potentially makes matters worse.

    Let's focus on determining why you have an overfill condition first... we'll test both sensors just to be thorough.

    The first thing to test is the upper optical sensor. Use Apex Local, not Apex Fusion. Slide the PMUP tile to OFF so the pump doesn't run while testing. Move the ATK mount up so both sensors are out of the water. Look at the LSenso and HSenso tiles - they should both indicate OPEN. Do they? The Local Dashboard refreshes every 15 seconds, so allow at least that much time when watching for the tiles to change state.

    If they both do show OPEN, move the ATK mount down so that the water level is exactly in the middle of the two sensors. LSenso should now show CLOSED and HSenso OPEN. Do they?

    If LSenso is CLOSED and HSenso is OPEN, move the mount down again so that the upper sensor is completely covered. LSenso should still show CLOSED and HSenso should now show CLOSED too. Do they?

    If you do not see the expected indexations, post exactly what the results of the testing were.
    Both the optical sensors work as you described.


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  4. #4
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    In that case, I'd say the next step is to watch a ATK cycle. Copy and paste your current programming for the pump into a text document. Then re-run the ATK Task to restore the original ATK programming. Then remove the Min Time statement temporarily so that statement does not prevent you from doing a test on demand. Remove some water from the sump if needed. Then position the ATK mount so that the low sensor is not covered. Let it kick on, and watch. What happens?
    I'm not a Neptune support rep. Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  5. #5
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    If the sensors work as described ... Have you installed the siphon break?

    Do you have the water lvl from RO deposit below the level in the sump?

    If siphon occurs you will be gravity feeding RO until the float acts!

    It happen to me before!

  6. #6
    Frequent Visitor joenla's Avatar
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    I purchased the FMM module and I had the same exact problem. My ATO Reservoir sits in a room behind my tank on the floor. It's a 30 gallon tall tank so when the reservoir is filled all the way up the water level is higher than the sump that's underneath the tank. So if the reservoir was filled all the way then when the ATO would kick on and then back off it wouldn't lose its siphon. The only way I could figure out to fix the problem other than not allowing the water level in the ATO Reservoir to be higher than the sump, was to install and Neptune solenoid valve. Now I have the solenoid valve set to open when the ATO kicks on and then it's close when the ATO is off which ensures the back siphoning doesn't happen. Honestly you would think this would have been one of the standard components that came with the ATO/FMM kit. Not sure if this is your problem but that's what was happening with me

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  7. #7
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    Make sure you install the siphon break on the reservoir end otherwise you'll siphon the ato reservoir - as it happen to mine.


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  8. #8
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joenla View Post
    Honestly you would think this would have been one of the standard components that came with the ATO/FMM kit.
    The ATK includes a siphon break in the package.
    I'm not a Neptune support rep. Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  9. #9
    Frequent Visitor joenla's Avatar
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    Correct it does have a siphon break but my point is it doesn't work very well. If the water level in the ATO Reservoir is higher than the sump then it doesn't break the siphon. Don't get me wrong the ATK is absolutely great and I absolutely love it I just think it should have came with a solenoid valve because then you know for sure it cuts off the water supply from the ATO Reservoir. But then again I guess that would have made it just that much more expensive. But personally I can't see me ever running my ATK without the solenoid valve.

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  10. #10
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    ATK Over filling

    Sounds like a design flaw in your setup - as long your lines are above the water line you shouldn't have a siphon. As long your siphon break is above the water line you shouldn't have a problem.


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  11. #11
    Frequent Visitor joenla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicK32 View Post
    Sounds like a design flaw in your setup - as long your lines are above the water line you shouldn't have a siphon. As long your siphon break is above the water line you shouldn't have a problem.


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    Well there's not many ways to mess it up. You put the ATK pump in the ATO Reservoir and then you put the siphon at the top above the water level with the siphon pointing back down so that when it kicks on it sprays water back into the reservoir. Then you run your line over to the water sensors and connect it to the float. Problem is again with my reservoir tank being so tall when it's full the water level is higher than the sump. Because of that once the ATK turns off it still continues to drip water into my sump. The only design flaw is my ATO Reservoir is too tall but I don't want to put a smaller one in there so as I suggested if he adds a solenoid valve then he doesn't have to worry about it continuing to siphon. That is if he's having the same problem I had.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by joenla View Post
    Well there's not many ways to mess it up. You put the ATK pump in the ATO Reservoir and then you put the siphon at the top above the water level with the siphon pointing back down so that when it kicks on it sprays water back into the reservoir. Then you run your line over to the water sensors and connect it to the float. Problem is again with my reservoir tank being so tall when it's full the water level is higher than the sump. Because of that once the ATK turns off it still continues to drip water into my sump. The only design flaw is my ATO Reservoir is too tall but I don't want to put a smaller one in there so as I suggested if he adds a solenoid valve then he doesn't have to worry about it continuing to siphon. That is if he's having the same problem I had.


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    Sorry to be so direct but a pictures will explain what I mean - hopefully this will help you. As my setup is similar to yours

    IMG_3811.jpg





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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicK32 View Post
    Sorry to be so direct but a pictures will explain what I mean - hopefully this will help you. As my setup is similar to yours

    IMG_3811.jpg





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    IMG_3812.jpg



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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicK32 View Post
    IMG_3812.jpg



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    IMG_3815.JPG



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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicK32 View Post
    IMG_3815.JPG



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    IMG_3814.JPG

    My ato line is the white John line running from my garage which is above the water line of the sump





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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicK32 View Post
    IMG_3814.JPG

    My ato line is the white John line running from my garage which is above the water line of the sump





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    IMG_3816.jpg

    And my programming for the atk





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  17. #17
    Frequent Visitor joenla's Avatar
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    yep. I'm setup exact same way expect I have the ball float setup as well. I also have longer defers bc I feel the optical sensors kick on and off way too often.

  18. #18
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    Well I ended up figuring out what the issue was. I too have a custom made ATO container that is tall, rather than wide. So the water level sits much higher than my sump water level (a good 16" higher). I had placed the siphon break in the ATO line, but the way it was positioned did not break the siphon. So once the ATO pump kicked on, the water would siphon until the levels were close to matched. I repositioned the siphon break in the line, and now I have not had any issues in a few days. Its funny how something so simple can cause you a big headache.

    Here is my sump setup:
    59cbad3fc9b7c_IMG_1819-Copy.thumb.jpg.bcf0a990cbd852cf18fd9f3afdbfe360.jpg

  19. #19
    Frequent Visitor joenla's Avatar
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    yep thats exactly the same issue i had except no matter where i positioned the siphon break the darn thing wouldn't stop leaking... nice setup

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimsonvice View Post
    Well I ended up figuring out what the issue was. I too have a custom made ATO container that is tall, rather than wide. So the water level sits much higher than my sump water level (a good 16" higher). I had placed the siphon break in the ATO line, but the way it was positioned did not break the siphon. So once the ATO pump kicked on, the water would siphon until the levels were close to matched. I repositioned the siphon break in the line, and now I have not had any issues in a few days. Its funny how something so simple can cause you a big headache.

    Here is my sump setup:
    59cbad3fc9b7c_IMG_1819-Copy.thumb.jpg.bcf0a990cbd852cf18fd9f3afdbfe360.jpg
    well great work Brandon!

  21. #21
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    Went out of town and had someone watching the tank. When they came in, the ATO had over filled again and cause my skimmer to go crazy. I thought about cleaning the skimmer cup before leaving but said nah I'm good till I get back.lol well about 1/2 skimmer cup full of thick nasty skim went right back into the tank. Ugh!


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