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Thread: What are major incentives to upgrade to the new apex system ?

  1. #1
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    What are major incentives to upgrade to the new apex system ?

    I brought the apex gold package just 2 years back and now they have the newer model - I am struggling to invest another 800/- but it looks like most of the new accessories might in near future only work with the Apex 2016 system.

    Has anyone gone thru the same dilemma? How did you overcome the urge to not spend another 800/- and upgraded to 2016 model ?

  2. #2
    Frequent Visitor joenla's Avatar
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    Well I'm one of those suckers that always has to have the newest thing so you can't go off of too much of what I say when it comes to whether it's worth it or not. I have to say it's about a 50-50 for me. It's nice but is it any more reliable? No I haven't seen a difference in it as far as speed or reliability. I will say this. If you're looking to get the Trident later when it comes out then it might be easier for you to upgrade now so that you're not spending so much at one time but other than that I can't really see a big difference in either of them. I had the classic for about a year and I just recently purchased the 2016 Apex at MACNA. Now if you're thinking about purchasing a new one then I would say you definitely want to go with the 2016 I mean why I purchase an older model unless you're getting it used and very cheap. But in your case it all comes down to the money and whether you're willing to spend it. Having the eb832 is nice but at the same time the only thing it does compared to the eb8 is show you the amperage. Not putting down either model they're both great but there's not a significant difference in the two other than you probably won't see any newer gadgets come out that are compatible with the classic. One things for sure the 2016 is much easier to setup and connect to put again once setup its not any different than the classic. I also like that i can rename the switches from fusion and don't have to use the old classic page. I wanted the eb 832 so thats another reason I went ahead and upgraded but if your not in need or don't want an eb 832 I would suggest waiting till they sell the Apex separately.

  3. #3
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    I'm not sure I would say the new releases will only be good for the new apex. To date only the EB832 and the upcoming Triton system are the only accessories that aren't backwards compatible. I do agree with the above, it's a no brainer if you don't currently have a system, but really a matter of what you hope to accomplish with your apex in the future, that will drive an upgrade decision

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    Quote Originally Posted by joenla View Post
    I also like that i can rename the switches from fusion and don't have to use the old classic page.
    I have the classic and can rename my switches from fusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopdeprashant View Post

    Has anyone gone thru the same dilemma? How did you overcome the urge to not spend another 800/- and upgraded to 2016 model ?
    I bought mine right before the new model came out and had the same dilemma. But I learned my lesson with Apple to not buy the newest hardware right when it comes out. Let the "beta testers" find all the bugs first. Classic is more reliable than the new model so far, so I'm content for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SanClementeEric View Post
    I bought mine right before the new model came out and had the same dilemma. But I learned my lesson with Apple to not buy the newest hardware right when it comes out. Let the "beta testers" find all the bugs first. Classic is more reliable than the new model so far, so I'm content for now.
    I have an old black label classic, I have never had a problem with it and I am not in a rush to replace it. It can take years to get the bugs worked out and reliability up of any product. We are just starting to see less complaints about the Apex 2016's reliability now, 1 1/2 years after release.

    If you have been in this hobby for any length of time you will know reagents can go bad. Look at the Hanna recall last year. Also, to me trident needs to prove it's self in the real world for reliability. I don't understand why we see posts on linking Trident to DOS. If the test is off you will kill everything in your tank.

    If this system is rushed into release, I will be waiting for the posts that are blaming trident for killing their tank.

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    I'm in the camp that's upgrading the Apex to prepare for the Trident. Automated monitoring is huge to me. It's something that I've never been confident that I'm doing right and, honestly, I've never been good at doing it as often as I should. I'll keep my old apex running on my long term QT/observation system.

    As to tying the Trident to a DOS, I do agree that it's too risky to do at the start. I'll be running a calcium reactor anyway, but I'd want to see some long term reliability out of the Trident before trusting automated dosing based off of automated monitoring. I think I did see a post from Terence about how there will be some logic built in so if a number is way off suddenly the system wouldn't try to correct it but rather alert. That type of logic would be a welcome addition.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JnDRader View Post
    As to tying the Trident to a DOS, I do agree that it's too risky to do at the start. I'll be running a calcium reactor anyway, but I'd want to see some long term reliability out of the Trident before trusting automated dosing based off of automated monitoring. I think I did see a post from Terence about how there will be some logic built in so if a number is way off suddenly the system wouldn't try to correct it but rather alert. That type of logic would be a welcome addition.
    There are actually automated ways that can be incredibly safe automatically that don't have that runaway risk. One way is to run 3 profiles for the dos: one 10% less than calculated, one calculated, and one 10% more. When levels are too high you use the 10% less. When low use 10% more and when in range use calculated. This may be a built in feature when it releases as this is a very safe way to auto correct. Of course we will know more when they release it, but I don't expect them to do automated changes without some significant safety checks.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopdeprashant View Post
    I brought the apex gold package just 2 years back and now they have the newer model - I am struggling to invest another 800/- but it looks like most of the new accessories might in near future only work with the Apex 2016 system.

    Has anyone gone thru the same dilemma? How did you overcome the urge to not spend another 800/- and upgraded to 2016 model ?
    I agree - if I was buying brand new would have gone with the 2016 model.

    Is the 2016 apex eco system stable ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by joenla View Post
    Well I'm one of those suckers that always has to have the newest thing so you can't go off of too much of what I say when it comes to whether it's worth it or not. I have to say it's about a 50-50 for me. It's nice but is it any more reliable? No I haven't seen a difference in it as far as speed or reliability. I will say this. If you're looking to get the Trident later when it comes out then it might be easier for you to upgrade now so that you're not spending so much at one time but other than that I can't really see a big difference in either of them. I had the classic for about a year and I just recently purchased the 2016 Apex at MACNA. Now if you're thinking about purchasing a new one then I would say you definitely want to go with the 2016 I mean why I purchase an older model unless you're getting it used and very cheap. But in your case it all comes down to the money and whether you're willing to spend it. Having the eb832 is nice but at the same time the only thing it does compared to the eb8 is show you the amperage. Not putting down either model they're both great but there's not a significant difference in the two other than you probably won't see any newer gadgets come out that are compatible with the classic. One things for sure the 2016 is much easier to setup and connect to put again once setup its not any different than the classic. I also like that i can rename the switches from fusion and don't have to use the old classic page. I wanted the eb 832 so thats another reason I went ahead and upgraded but if your not in need or don't want an eb 832 I would suggest waiting till they sell the Apex separately.
    Thanks for an awesome and frank writeup !! Agree with your perspective. How is 2016 with built in WiFi (esp. when upgrading firmware) working out? Do you see it as a big plus point in 2016 model.

    I am excited about the Trident and that was got me thinking again

    How does the construction of EB832 compare with EB8/4 ? It looks more flimsy and plasticy

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    Quote Originally Posted by SanClementeEric View Post
    I bought mine right before the new model came out and had the same dilemma. But I learned my lesson with Apple to not buy the newest hardware right when it comes out. Let the "beta testers" find all the bugs first. Classic is more reliable than the new model so far, so I'm content for now.
    I agree I am currently in the same boat as you..It's not just the money but esp the time spent dealing with early adoption bugs and compatibilities..I rely on the apex for some stability and it not want to experiment with something new that I am going to spend a lot of money on and then it takes away a lot of time also...

  12. #12
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    In general - thanks to everyone who chimed in provided feedback ..appreciate your inputs..looks like I will hold on for a little while and watch the stability and reliability of the 2016 model ..

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    No problem glad to help but honestly I can't really comment on the wifi. I've never used it. Even with classic I had it hardwired. Problem with wifi is it always depends on where the router is and how think the walls are etc etc. I have a 2 story house and a large expensive router and still my son has issues with it reaching his pc upstairs. Several years back I gave up and just ran an Ethernet cable. Maybe someone that uses wifi can chime in. As for EB832 its very well built. Its not cheap at all. Its a little larger than an EB8 so it takes up a little more room but its very very sturdy.


    Quote Originally Posted by chopdeprashant View Post
    Thanks for an awesome and frank writeup !! Agree with your perspective. How is 2016 with built in WiFi (esp. when upgrading firmware) working out? Do you see it as a big plus point in 2016 model.

    I am excited about the Trident and that was got me thinking again

    How does the construction of EB832 compare with EB8/4 ? It looks more flimsy and plasticy

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopdeprashant View Post
    Thanks for an awesome and frank writeup !! Agree with your perspective. How is 2016 with built in WiFi (esp. when upgrading firmware) working out? Do you see it as a big plus point in 2016 model.

    I am excited about the Trident and that was got me thinking again

    How does the construction of EB832 compare with EB8/4 ? It looks more flimsy and plasticy
    My experience with the built in WiFi is that it's similar in reliability and function to a gaming adaptor or WiFi extender. This means that if you have a router that supports 802.11g or 802.11AC, you can give it at minimum 3 bars of signal, and use a non congested channel (1, 6 or 11. There are apps that can tell you which is least congested) then you won't have any issues. The apex (both classic and 2016) don't handle spotty WiFi as well as something like a phone or streaming device, so if you can't meet the above 3 requirements, Ethernet is basically required.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    My experience with the built in WiFi is that it's similar in reliability and function to a gaming adaptor or WiFi extender. This means that if you have a router that supports 802.11g or 802.11AC, you can give it at minimum 3 bars of signal, and use a non congested channel (1, 6 or 11. There are apps that can tell you which is least congested) then you won't have any issues. The apex (both classic and 2016) don't handle spotty WiFi as well as something like a phone or streaming device, so if you can't meet the above 3 requirements, Ethernet is basically required.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Till now I have had good luck with the gaming adaptor and WiFi. So only plus would be to do firmware upgrades without hard wiring to the internet ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopdeprashant View Post
    Till now I have had good luck with the gaming adaptor and WiFi. So only plus would be to do firmware upgrades without hard wiring to the internet ?
    With regard to WiFi specifically yes, except you also have the advantage that there is 1 point of failure vs 3 (adaptor, cable, and apex), which does make it slightly more reliable. Regarding firmware updates, the new version can also update remotely and doesn't require you to download firmwares. You can update remotely via fusion with one button click.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joenla View Post
    I wanted the eb 832 so thats another reason I went ahead and upgraded but if your not in need or don't want an eb 832 I would suggest waiting till they sell the Apex separately.
    This is interesting; a week ago it wasn't available:

    https://www.neptunestore.eu/en/neptune-systems-apex-2016-base-unit.html

    If they had accepted a US shipping address, I might have ordered one to have as a backup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SanClementeEric View Post
    I have the classic and can rename my switches from fusion.
    Please provide instructions how to do this please.

    Thanks


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    What are major incentives to upgrade to the new apex system ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SanClementeEric View Post
    I have the classic and can rename my switches from fusion.
    Please provide instructions how to do this please.
    It is not possible to rename an Apex Classic’s switch (or probe) inputs using APEX Fusion. The Classic Dashboard should be used to do this.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    It is not possible to rename an Apex Classic’s switch (or probe) inputs using APEX Fusion. The Classic Dashboard should be used to do this.
    Oh, I meant OUTLETS (that I can "switch" on and off or auto). Maybe I misunderstood.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanClementeEric View Post
    Oh, I meant OUTLETS (that I can "switch" on and off or auto). Maybe I misunderstood.
    In the world of Apex, “switch” is a shortened term for switch input. The OFF/AUTO/ON controls on dashboard tiles are called “sliders”.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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