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Thread: Power failure temperature range

  1. #1
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    Power failure temperature range

    I have my 2016 Apex set up to run off a UPS with a 12v power to the Apex in the house socket so I can detect power outages.

    Since the heater will suck the power very quickly, I'd like to set the temp several degrees below the normal temp to conserve power and increase available oxygen. I think I have the programming right, but wanted to post here in case I messed something up. Basically created a VO for the power out temp range (73.5-74) and one for the normal range (77.5-78). If either are ON, then the heater outlet is turned on. The normal range VO is shut down if a power outage is detected. Any advice on temp ranges or gotchas in my code would be appreciated!

    Thanks!

    VO: [HeatNoPower]:
    If Tmp < 73.5 Then ON
    If Tmp > 74.0 Then OFF

    VO: [HeatWPower]:
    If Tmp < 77.5 Then ON
    If Tmp > 78.0 Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 000 Then OFF

    Heater EB832 outlet:
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output HeatNoPower = ON Then ON
    If Output HeatWPower = ON Then ON

  2. #2
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    That works, though you could eliminate the HeatNoPower VO by putting that code in the Heater outlet. Replace the Set OFF with the Tmp statements and remove the Output HeatNoPower check. So you have a default mode of operation at the lower range, and the HeatWPower outlet overrides it.

  3. #3
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Personally, I would not do this. As you pointed out, a heater will “suck a UPS dry” quickly. I’d rather have a cool tank than one with no power at all, meaning no water circulation.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Personally, I would not do this. As you pointed out, a heater will “suck a UPS dry” quickly. I’d rather have a cool tank than one with no power at all, meaning no water circulation.



    Thanks!

    So are you saying to turn the heater off altogether rather than setting to a low temp? My only concern is getting down to a temp that kills everything quickly, but I don't know what that temp may be. Perhaps you're right.

    I'm actually thinking that Ideally I could turn the pumps on 5 out of every 15 minutes or so to keep the longest possible sustaining of life in the tank. Any advice on acceptable duty cycles or how to do that programmatically? Was thinking a virtual outlet that toggles using min ons and defers but haven't worked through it.

  5. #5
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The problem with using the heaters is unless you have a $1000+ UPS, it will run out of juice in about 15 minutes once the temp sinks to that level.

    The pump scenario requires two VOs. PowerOFF can be used for any device that needs to run a different "setting" when power is lost.

    PowerOFF
    Set OFF
    If Power Apex OFF 000 Then ON

    PumpPWR
    (How you want pump to run on power out)
    If Output PowerOFF = ON Then OFF

    Pump
    (Existing code)
    If Output PowerOFF = ON Then OFF
    If Output PumpPWR = ON Then ON

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  6. #6
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    Trying to understand the need for the PowerOff VO. Can't you just use the If Power Apex in it's place directly?

    For example, if I want to run my return 5 minutes out of 30 when the power's out, and 100% of the time otherwise, wouldn't this work:

    ReturnNoPower:
    Set OFF
    OSC 025:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON
    If Power Apex On 000 Then ON

    Return EB832 Outlet:
    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Output ReturnNoPwr = OFF Then OFF

  7. #7
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    That would work. I forgot about using On in the power statement.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  8. #8
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjkrejci View Post
    Trying to understand the need for the PowerOff VO.
    No VO is even needed. I always look for a way to do something without using a VO; I use VOs only when necessary, or when using a VO makes things more flexible for future modification.

    [Return]
    Fallback ON
    OSC 025:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON
    If Power Apex On 000 Then ON
    {add any desired If FeedX or other programming here}

    So simple, it's elegant

    When power is normal to the Apex, the If Power statement will be true, and the return pump will run constantly. Whenever a power loss is detected, If Power Apex On 000 Then ON statemnet will not be true, so the OSC will be in control of the outlet state.

    FWIW, do not use a Set statement with a OSC in the same program as you did in the ReturnNoPower program. OSC has explicit / hard ON and OFF states, so an OSC is always true, and therefore anything listed above the OSC will simply be ignored (Fallback being the one exception). More info about when a Set should or should not be used can be found here: https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...l=1#post114462
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  9. #9
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    Yep, that's simpler...thanks so much. I'm an embedded SW engineer and Apex programming is such a different paradigm than C, but I'm slowly getting there. So great to have so much knowledge and experience on this board!

    Thanks again!
    Rick

  10. #10
    Frequent Visitor rlbannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    No VO is even needed. I always look for a way to do something without using a VO; I use VOs only when necessary, or when using a VO makes things more flexible for future modification.

    [Return]
    Fallback ON
    OSC 025:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON
    If Power Apex On 000 Then ON
    {add any desired If FeedX or other programming here}

    So simple, it's elegant

    When power is normal to the Apex, the If Power statement will be true, and the return pump will run constantly. Whenever a power loss is detected, If Power Apex On 000 Then ON statemnet will not be true, so the OSC will be in control of the outlet state.
    I have 4 WAVs. I created a profile called WAV_Slow to run on one WAV when power is out. The others shut off. Here is my code for the one:

    Fallback WAV_Slowtdata 00:00:00,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 06:00:00,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 08:00:00,0,0,10,2,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 12:00:00,0,0,25,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 18:00:00,0,0,25,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 22:00:00,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:59:00,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    If Power Apex Off 001 Then WAV_Slow
    If FeedA 000 Then WAV_Slow
    If FeedB 000 Then OFF
    If FeedC 000 Then OFF
    If FeedD 000 Then OFF

    I would like to oscillate the WAV_Slow when power goes out, instead of running the WAV constantly. How could I work in the OSC command?

  11. #11
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    OSC is intended for ON/OFF operation. It’s not well suited for fully controllable devices like WAVs.

    Just use a WAV profile set to Pulse or Pipeline.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  12. #12
    Frequent Visitor rlbannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    OSC is intended for ON/OFF operation. It’s not well suited for fully controllable devices like WAVs.

    Just use a WAV profile set to Pulse or Pipeline.
    Thank you, RussM, I didn't think of that. I would like to have longer off times than on for even more power saving, but 50/50 is better than always on, so I chose Pipeline. At least I cut my power consumption in half. If anyone thinks of a way to do something similar to oscillate so I can have longer off times than on, please chime in.

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