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Thread: probes not be submerged.. why not.

  1. #1
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    probes not be submerged.. why not.

    we all know the recommendation is not to submerge the probes. ph orp what other ones.. temp and conductivity ok to submerge?

    doing an upgrade to new apex from the classic.. Without getting into a long story. Just wondering why. i have two options .. the best is to place them in sump and not the tank. if in the sump i can put high or low.. but do water changes of 200 gallons out of the sump. so it goes low and they would get dry for hour or so.. if low in the sump they stay wet but cords submerged. i can place i the overflow of the tank before the water gets to the sump.. problem there is lots of mico bubbles.

    sump is a 300 gallon horse trough.

    thanks

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The reason is the cable that connects to it can become brittle over time and crack when submerged in saltwater and some but not all pH and ORP probes have a fill port at the top for reference fluid that can open under pressure and mix the tank water and reference fluid together.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  3. #3
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    thanks for the info... what about the conductivity probe.. same thing.. I submerge mine side ways to keep micro bubbles from collecting.

  4. #4
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Temp probes are fine to be fully submerged. A short period of the ph and ORP probes being exposed to air is not going to be an issue.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  5. #5
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The conductivity probe still has the brittle problem, but it takes a really long time. The probe will likely need replacement anyway by the time it gets brittle enough to crack.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    thanks..

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    Just about to receive my new Apex never having owned one. Is there minimum and maximum depths the probes should be kept in or will this be obvious once I take the out of the box?

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    i actually have mine fully submerged without any issues.. i usually replace mine every year or two. i have no issues with mine being submerged. i have a set of probes in my sump in the basement and my overflow in the actual tank which is upstairs on the first floor.. intersting thing.. the conductivity probes are off from each other.. basement reads 34.2 and upstairs in the overflow reads... 37.2 my handheld says 1.023 go figure..

  9. #9
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clownfishy View Post
    Just about to receive my new Apex never having owned one. Is there minimum and maximum depths the probes should be kept in or will this be obvious once I take the out of the box?
    Conductivity and temp can be fully submerged. pH and ORP should be positioned such that the cap and cable is above water or it can make the cable connection brittle and/or leach saltwater into the reference solution and kill the probe much earlier.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  10. #10
    Frequent Visitor DarthSimon's Avatar
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    probes not be submerged.. why not.

    So If I wanted to buy a PM2 and Add a Salinity and TempProbe, and place them down towards the bottom of my salt water mixing station submerged no issues?

  11. #11
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSimon View Post
    So If I wanted to buy a PM2 and Add a Salinity ands TempProbe, and place them down towards the bottom of my salt water mixing station submerged no issues?
    No issues at all. I have my PM2 set up exactly that way. Just make sure to rinse the probe out after mixing a new batch of NSW since it can get caked a bit being on the bottom.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Could it be recamended to use a heat shrink wrap to keep the saltwater from making the wires more brittle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Surline View Post
    Could it be recamended to use a heat shrink wrap to keep the saltwater from making the wires more brittle?
    Possibly if you used an adhesive lined shrink wrap. If you used normal shrink wrap, it wouldn't make any real difference. For something like a pH probe it still wouldn't be advisable as some pH proved have a full hole that isn't sealed for pressure and can let saltwater leak into the reference fluid and kill the probe much faster.

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    That's an amazing knowledge base you have good sir, Why are you not the one designing all these products as I see your informational replies on almost every post. Thank you for the info.

  15. #15
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Surline View Post
    That's an amazing knowledge base you have good sir, Why are you not the one designing all these products as I see your informational replies on almost every post. Thank you for the info.
    Cause I design big stuff like 345,000 Volt substations or 100,000,000 Watt solar or wind farms. Apex and electronics is just a hobby.

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    Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but I'm planning on putting the 4 apex probes in the display tank (I have an AIO and don't have room in the chambers) and want as little as possible of the probes showing and most of it outside the tank. How much of the probes is acceptable to have submerged, 1 inch?
    PH and ORP appear to only need a small portion where the electrodes are exposed maybe a 1/2 inch.
    Salinity has a hole around an 1 inch that I assume needs to be submerged.
    Temp, can I assume that only the "cap" portion is responsible for measuring temperate?

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Conductivity and temp can be fully submerged. pH and ORP should be positioned such that the cap and cable is above water or it can make the cable connection brittle and/or leach saltwater into the reference solution and kill the probe much earlier.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesPaulGtr View Post
    Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but I'm planning on putting the 4 apex probes in the display tank (I have an AIO and don't have room in the chambers) and want as little as possible of the probes showing and most of it outside the tank. How much of the probes is acceptable to have submerged, 1 inch?
    PH and ORP appear to only need a small portion where the electrodes are exposed maybe a 1/2 inch.
    Salinity has a hole around an 1 inch that I assume needs to be submerged.
    Temp, can I assume that only the "cap" portion is responsible for measuring temperate?

    Thanks!
    I would fully submerge the temp probe or the ambient air can skew the readings low a little bit.

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    Thanks Zombie, that makes sense, but the others are ok with partial submerging?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesPaulGtr View Post
    Thanks Zombie, that makes sense, but the others are ok with partial submerging?
    Yes. The oH and ORP have to be partially submerged anyway. The cond probe can either be fully or partially submerged as long as the hole on the side is below water with a margin of safety. The temp probe sensor is in the tip, but heating and cooling from conduction from the shaft can happen, so it's best to keep that at least 80% submerged.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Yes. The oH and ORP have to be partially submerged anyway. The cond probe can either be fully or partially submerged as long as the hole on the side is below water with a margin of safety. The temp probe sensor is in the tip, but heating and cooling from conduction from the shaft can happen, so it's best to keep that at least 80% submerged.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Thanks, I appreciate it!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    I would fully submerge the temp probe or the ambient air can skew the readings low a little bit.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    What happens when ph probe is in the sump and return pump shuts off and water level rises and completely submerge the ph probe?? Is that going to be a problem or do I have to pull the ph probe up every time I shut my return pump off

  22. #22
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luv4tangz View Post
    What happens when ph probe is in the sump and return pump shuts off and water level rises and completely submerge the ph probe??
    It is not a problem.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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