Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: ATK won't start after initial setup

  1. #1
    New User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    7

    ATK won't start after initial setup

    I just installed the ATK (connect to my APEX controller). I followed the instruction (no mods). The ATK won't start when the sensors are out of water.

    I know the pump is working (tested it separately).

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    7,450
    Is the outlet in auto?

    Are the sensors configured as optical rather than auto detect?

    Do both switches show open when submerged and closed when out of water?

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  3. #3
    New User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    7
    thanks for the quick response.

    Yes the ATK is set to Auto. The indicator above the slide shows "ON"
    STK_ON.jpeg

    I was not sure how to check what you asked to check about the optical sensor, but that made me look at the programming for the ATK and I noticed that the if statement was "If Swx3_1 OPEN Then ON". I have been searching what that means but can't find if that is optical or auto detect.
    S1.jpg

    How do I check if the switches are open or closed?

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    7,450
    Go to the tab that looks kinda like a module. In there select the FMM and there are configuration options for the switches. Make sure 1 and 2 are set to optical and I would also rename switch1 to ATKlow and switch2 to ATKhigh just so it's easier to read your code (in the inputs tab that looks like a thermometer).

    To view whether the optical are open or closed check the unused tile bin if you don't see them on your dashboard.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  5. #5
    New User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    7
    You are awesome! Thanks
    I dipped the ATK in water, both switched closed. I'll wait a bit a take the ATK out. I assume that there was a timing issue also.

    I waited a bit. the switches definitely work. the ATK turns "on" also but nothing is coming out. I figure it is about the initial state. Both switches were open (out of the water) and I connected everything...

    I will run some tests and see what happens.

    Thanks and happy holidays

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    7,450
    It's probably the min time statement that's screwing with the test even though the switches are working. By default it has to wait 60 minutes from the last time it turned from on to off before it's allowed to turn on again.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  7. #7
    New User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    7
    After a few hours of waiting, still nothing is coming out. The Auto setting is clearly saying "ON" but nothing comes out.
    S2.jpeg
    I even turned the ATK "ON" manually, thinking that it would start the pmup. No luck
    S3.jpeg

    I tried connecting the pump to a separate port on power module and turned it on manually. The pump worked fine. I am starting to think it is the port on the FMM.

    Any suggestion for tests I can do?
    Thx

  8. #8
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN (CST)
    Posts
    100
    Do you have the 24V power supply ("wall wart") plugged into the FMM? The FMM will run off the aquabus, but if you are going to power a pump or solenoid with it you need to have it plugged in to the power supply.

  9. #9
    New User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    7
    That was it!! The power supply was not plugged in correctly.
    thank you again!!

  10. #10
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN (CST)
    Posts
    100
    Glad you got it working.

    If you look at the picture you posted in post #3, it shows the port being set to ‘auto’ and being turned on, so the Apex was trying to turn on the pump. If it wasn’t running at that point, either there was a fault with the pump itself, or power wasn’t getting to it. At that point, there were a limited number of things it could be and the power supply was one of the easily fixable options. Happy reefing!

  11. #11
    New User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    7
    Thank you for the clarification. It makes sense now. I am still very novice with this (brand new Apex).

    while I have your attention (both of you), here is the problem now with the ATK. I keeps on adding water every 4-5 minutes. Just a little bit at a time. I changed the « defer » to 02:00, thinking that it would wait 2 hours before starting to fill again, but no luck so far.

    Would you know what to do?

    thanks in advance.

  12. #12
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN (CST)
    Posts
    100
    Post your entire program so we can see.

    The defer and min time statements are a bit confusing (I think Neptune should actually change them, but I doubt they will.)

    Defer ooo:30 Then ON actually means defer turning on for 30 seconds. The most common use of this is with a sump level sensor for an auto topoff. If the water level is bouncing around, this will keep the pump from turning on unless the sensor has been above water for 30 seconds.
    Defer 000:10 Then OFF actually means defer turning off for 10 seconds. This insures that the outlet (ATO pump in this case) stays on for at least 10 seconds.
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF actually means minimum off time of 30 minutes. This means the outlet (ATO pump) will not turn on again for 30 minutes.

    From your question, I'd guess that you need to add a Defer...then OFF statement to give the pump a minimum run time, and then also add a Min Time...Then Off to keep it from cycling on again too quickly.

    See This thread and the Reference Manual for more info.

  13. #13
    New User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    7
    Thanks. The links helped.

    Here is my program now:

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If ATKLo OPEN Then ON
    If ATKHi CLOSED Then OFF
    Defer 005:00 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

    With that program this is what I "mean" to happen...

    If the ATKLo is OPEN, then start pumping water for 5 minutes, unless the ATKHi gets "CLOSED" (meaning the water has reached it), which at that time, the ATK will go to OFF state

    If the ATKLo is still OPEN after 30 minutes of waiting, then start filling for another 5 minutes Maximum.

    Does that sound right to you?

    thanks

  14. #14
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    7,450
    That won't do that. The correct code will depend on how exactly you want it to react when it has filled for 5 minutes. Do you want it to reset itself and try again after 30 minutes, do the same but wait longer than 30 minutes, or lock the ATO out until you manually intervene?

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  15. #15
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN (CST)
    Posts
    100
    The code you have says:

    • “Turn the pump on if ATKLo is open AND ATKHi is open (The If statements are evaluated in order, so if ATKHi is closed it would negate the ATKLo being open)
    • Once this is the case, stay on for at least 5 minutes, no matter what, then don’t come on again for at least 30 minutes. “


    Once the outlet has turned on, it won’t turn off for at least 5 minutes, even if the conditions change and the ATKHi sensor gets covered. I don’t think this is what you want. Even if it worked like this, you would potentially have the sump level oscillating between the ATKLo and ATKHi sensors - is that what you really want?

    What I would suggest is adding something like I posted above:

    • Defer 000:30 Then ON will keep the pump from turning on unless ATKLo has been open (dry) for at least 30 seconds straight.
    • Defer 000:10 Then OFF will keep the pump from turning off until ATKLo has been closed (wet) for at least 10 seconds straight.

    These two statements essentially minimize the effects of sloshing water and keep the pump from cycling on and off with transient changes in water level. (Not unlike the the sensor saying “turn off” and Apex saying “are you really sure?” for 10 seconds before turning off.)

    • Adding a Min Time 030:00 Then OFF will keep the pump from turning on again for 30 minutes once it has turned off.


    Remember, the Defer and Min Time statements apply to the entire outlet [code] and it doesn’t matter where you put them. If statements, however, are evaluated in order, so a second if statement below another will trump the first one.

  16. #16
    New User
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    6
    Hey sleepydoc question about your last post. In your line "
    • Defer 000:10 Then OFF will keep the pump from turning off until ATKLo has been closed (wet) for at least 10 seconds straight.


    How does it come into effect if you have the code line "
    If ATKHi CLOSED Then OFF" as slegare has above. Is it going to turn off when ATKLo has been closed for at least 10 seconds or when ATKHi is closed? Hope that makes sense

  17. #17
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    7,450
    Quote Originally Posted by toothdoc View Post
    Hey sleepydoc question about your last post. In your line "
    • Defer 000:10 Then OFF will keep the pump from turning off until ATKLo has been closed (wet) for at least 10 seconds straight.


    How does it come into effect if you have the code line "
    If ATKHi CLOSED Then OFF" as slegare has above. Is it going to turn off when ATKLo has been closed for at least 10 seconds or when ATKHi is closed? Hope that makes sense
    It actually waits 10 seconds after the outlet would otherwise tell it to turn OFF. The defer applies to the entire outlet.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •