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Thread: Battery backup for COR pump

  1. #1
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    Battery backup for COR pump

    Is there any way to hook up a battery backup to the COR pumps? I don't want to put a AC computer UPS in for a DC pump. Same question goes for the WAV pumps.

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    I haven’t seen one mentioned anywhere, so I doubt an official one exists. Theoretically you could; DC pumps use a power supply to supply DC power to a controller which then supplies the pump. I don’t know the specifics of the power supply for the COR-20, but I believe it’s a 24V 100W supply. A 12V battery with a 12 to 24V DC to DC voltage converter should work, the trick would be rigging a switching mechanism.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepydoc View Post
    I haven’t seen one mentioned anywhere, so I doubt an official one exists. Theoretically you could; DC pumps use a power supply to supply DC power to a controller which then supplies the pump. I don’t know the specifics of the power supply for the COR-20, but I believe it’s a 24V 100W supply. A 12V battery with a 12 to 24V DC to DC voltage converter should work, the trick would be rigging a switching mechanism.
    It's not quite that simple. You need a charging mechanism and a throwover or the battery will discharge slowly on it's own. DC-DC converters can also get pretty pricey at that wattage rating for one that is water resistant. They do make 24V power supply and battery backup combos for industrial uses that would work but are very expensive and are nearly all din rail mount. Probably cost about $200+ for one that would last 8 hours or more.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc760 View Post
    I don't want to put a AC computer UPS in for a DC pump.
    Is your primary concern here the price of a UPS versus a battery backup? Functionally, a UPS works fine with DC pumps since their controllers are AC-powered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    It's not quite that simple. You need a charging mechanism and a throwover or the battery will discharge slowly on it's own. DC-DC converters can also get pretty pricey at that wattage rating for one that is water resistant. They do make 24V power supply and battery backup combos for industrial uses that would work but are very expensive and are nearly all din rail mount. Probably cost about $200+ for one that would last 8 hours or more.
    You wouldn't necessarily need a waterproof voltage converter, but yes, you need some sort of trickle charging system for the battery; I was more throwing ideas out since it wasn't clear exactly what the OP wanted. If you just want something you can hook up yourself when the power goes out it's much easier than having something automatically switchover. It also depends on how long you need the pump to run for.

    Quote Originally Posted by rkpetersen View Post
    Is your primary concern here the price of a UPS versus a battery backup? Functionally, a UPS works fine with DC pumps since their controllers are AC-powered.
    True. Most don't last a terribly long time, but if you only need a hour or two, a UPS would be the simplest (and probably cheapest option).

    As far as the WAV pumps go it gets trickier. A COR 20 can run independently of the controller. The WAV powerbeads run off of the 1link supply and (I assume) need the Apex to be live as well. If you have a separate 1link module, you could conceivably switch over the 24VDC power to the one link as well as the DC voltage to the Apex and run them that way. If you're using an EB832, the only way would be to have the EB832 plugged into the UPS along with the Apex and write your code so that everything else gets shut off except your pumps. you'd probably drain the battery pretty quickly, though.

    Depending on where you live and how frequently you experience power outages, it may be worth it to look at a generator with an auto transfer switch. Definitely more expensive, but you can have it wired to run your furnace, refrigerator, and other stuff as well.

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    Thanks for the information. I was just curious hoping there was a simple solution. My mp40s have a battery and it's simple and reliable cost $150 and will last nearly 24 hours. My power is good where I live but once my electric company did unplanned maintenance and I was down 6 hours. I have to much time and money invested to risk a total shut down. I really liked the thought of having a COR15 pump and replacing my old mp40s with WAV. I like the simplicity and fact they all run off the 1 link power no extra AC power. The cost and size of a UPS is less than optimal in order to get 8+ hours. Seems like back up power is the only thing Neptune is missing.

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    Unfortunately, there’s no simple solution. I’m not a huge fan of Ecotech, but they’re about the only manufacturer on the market that has a battery backup solution that I know of.

    Part of the problem with return pumps is that they intrinsically take much more energy than powerheads, so any backup solution would necessarily need a much larger battery. If you think about it, though, flow through the sump is typically needed because equipment such as heaters, skimmers and reactors are placed there for aesthetic reasons. Since those typically would be shut off during a power outage, there’s not much benefit to maintaining flow through the sump; power heads in the tank will generally maintain adequate flow in the tank. Adding a DC fan and/or aiming the power head towards the surface to increase surface agitation can increase oxygenation as well.

    I don’t know if Neptune has any plans to come out with a battery backup solution, but it would be awesome if they did. They could conceivably integrate it with the Apex to automatically power only select equipment. Another idea I’ve thought of is a ‘universal’ DC battery backup system. Most DC devices use fairly standard voltages, so one could theoretically design a more universal battery system that sits in between the power supply and the device.

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    Frequent Visitor bigjim's Avatar
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    You can buy a 24v deep cycle battery and battery tender plus sells a tender for 24v batteries.

    I run the 12v version on my classic cars and motorcycles whenever they are parked for more than a week. My 2010 bagger still has the factory battery with no sign of it dieing anytime soon.

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    I have an APC battery backup on my system and have one EB8 plugged into the backup, the other two EB8's are plugged into regular outlet. When power goes out on either of the other two EB8's, A virtual outlet is triggered that when its on - it turns off everything on the backed up EB8 and turns off all but one WAV pump. This method allows the Apex to remain on and provide water movement via one of the WAV's. I am able to get about 3 hours of total backup time. Not as long as I would like, but it does at least give me time to get the notification about the outage and do something about it if I am not home.

    Side note, over the holiday I bought a Maxspect Gyre along with the IceCap control module to interface with Apex and an IceCap Battery backup. According to what I have read the battery backup will run one pump 24/32 hours depending on individual pump. This was my sole reasoning in buying this pump was the battery backup, having so much invested now I can't risk a 4 hour power outage where I am not available and I loose everything.

    Here's a Link:

    https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/batte...gaArgsEALw_wcB

    Interesting part is these are compatible with different DC pumps... Not sure if there would be a way to get them to work the the WAV or COR, they come with several different size power connectors. It says they work with any 12/24V pump.

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    I also fly rc planes and have a pile of 24 volt lipo's. i am working on a way to plug these in during a power failure

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    Yeah I've done a lot of research. Looks like I'll be sticking with my vortech wavemakers and buying a battery capable return pump. It's a shame that
    The only recommended option is a computer UPS to run the AC adapter for DC powered devices. I have to much invested in this hobby to start building my own solutions just to stay with Neptune products.

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    of course, I believe most serious fishkeepers have a backup generator. I picked up a 2300 watt for under $300

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    Agree Generator is nice but only helps if I'm home to put it online. Being in southern California power is not really a problem wide spread. It's typically localized because of a down power pole or maintenance.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc760 View Post
    Yeah I've done a lot of research. Looks like I'll be sticking with my vortech wavemakers and buying a battery capable return pump. It's a shame that
    The only recommended option is a computer UPS to run the AC adapter for DC powered devices. I have to much invested in this hobby to start building my own solutions just to stay with Neptune products.

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    You are aware that the typical 1500VA UPS has the exact same battery and about 90% the runtime as a vortech battery backup (those are about 150 vs the 165 echotech charges) right? Not only that, but you can triple to quadruple the runtime for double the price with battery extension banks. Neptune is actually doing you a favor by not overcharging for a battery backup solution when the market can provide a better solution for less.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Not to turn this into a debate but an APC 1500av for example will run 200w ac for one hour thirty two minutes. A 3000av will run two hours twenty nine minutes. That's way below what a $160 echotech battery can run two pumps for.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc760 View Post
    Not to turn this into a debate but an APC 1500av for example will run 200w ac for one hour thirty two minutes. A 3000av will run two hours twenty nine minutes. That's way below what a $160 echotech battery can run two pumps for.

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    You do know how echotech calculated their runtime right? It's at minimum speed constant. The APC 1500ag can run two MP40s for between 17 and 21 (depending on whether ecotech factored in aging factor which they probably didnt) hours at minimum intensity assuming the same draw echotech used (about 8 hours also running an apex) and triple those values with the extension. Vortechs numbers assume a wattage draw of about 3W from each pump.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  17. #17
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    Thanks for your input. I'll take your word for it. I just know the one time I needed the echotech battery backup it worked without issue. It's simple and been reliable so far. I don't really know how echotech figured their numbers I just know that my pumps are set to run at 50% and lasted the nearly 8 hour power outage I had. I don't doubt your statements. I'm not trying to figure the math out on taking batteries converting thier DC output to AC in order to power an AC adapter that converts back to DC to run a pump. My experience with UPS is they are for short term but I'm used to them in a high power demand. Maybe I'll look into it further at a later time. I've just seen enough debate on this subject to stick with what's worked for me.

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    Thanks Again. Just reading your answers to other people is helping me out with questions I did not even have yet lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sppf121 View Post
    Thanks Again. Just reading your answers to other people is helping me out with questions I did not even have yet lol.
    Its December 2019 and the thread seems pretty relevant still. I was just watching the BRS video comparing some battery backup options and thought of your question. It would be nice to have a DC Battery Backup that could support DC pumps, always looking for eliminating risk factors in reefing.

    https://youtu.be/9mEZ4V47HnM

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    Looks like the new Icecap Battery Backup supports 24V. Has anyone looked into this?

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    I have purchased the equipment but still need to buy the batteries. I plan on running my COR-20 off of this power supply attached to a 24V LiFePO4 deep cycle battery.
    DDR-120B-24.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotfrogs View Post
    I have purchased the equipment but still need to buy the batteries. I plan on running my COR-20 off of this power supply attached to a 24V LiFePO4 deep cycle battery.
    DDR-120B-24.jpg
    Would appreciate an update on how this has worked for you if you've got it up and running.

    Seems kind of pricey for what it is but I've been considering trying this to backup my cor20 with.

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    I have been distracted with Halloween projects and not had a chance to complete this project yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotfrogs View Post
    I have been distracted with Halloween projects and not had a chance to complete this project yet.

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    These things take time!

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