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Thread: Apex Solenoid - Co2

  1. #1
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    Apex Solenoid - Co2

    Question, anyone using the Apex Solenoid to control the Co2 flow that's feeds a Calcium Reactor? Not looking for code, just if anyone had success
    using one with Co2.

    Reason I ask is since I'm not using any of the 24v Outlets on either of my 2 EB832's, I thought I would use the Apex Solenoid to control
    my Co2 which would free up a 120v Outlet.

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    It's not designed for gas so it almost definately won't work. You could use a gas solenoid that is 24V and wire it into a 24V port though.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Not to contradict, but according to Neptune’s web site it is ok to use with Co2.
    Just wondering if anyone has tried.

    solenoid Valve (SV-1)

    This 24VDC powered, normally-closed (NC), solenoid valve has push-fit tubing input and outputs designed for standard 1/4″ tubing. The electrical connection on this solenoid valve fits the DC24 accessory ports found on the FMM, 1Link, and Energy Bar 832 products. Common uses include safety stops for RODI systems, CO2 systems on calcium reactors, and many other places where you want to control the on/off flow of water, air, or other gasses. This solenoid valve can also be used with our standalone 24VDC power supply (not included) if you do not own one of the above products and want to use this solenoid valve with your Energy Bar 8 or Energy Bar 4.

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    If you do try it, make darn sure it's placed after your needle valve. I can't seem to find the specs but recall it being designed for 60psi nominal water pressure. If well sealed that is only good for about 10 psi gas nominal.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Point well taken. But before or after the needle value is irrelevant. What’s important is that it’s after the low pressure side of the regulator. That is what is the determining factor of the line pressure.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Member No 1 View Post
    Point well taken. But before or after the needle value is irrelevant. What’s important is that it’s after the low pressure side of the regulator. That is what is the determining factor of the line pressure.
    Before or after needle wheel makes a difference. Many regulators output like 50psi on the low pressure side and then the needle wheel further reduces the pressure.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  7. #7
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    Needle wheel vs needle valve?
    More clarification so I can understand better.
    Not trying to get in a p match, just want to be sure I know what I’m talking about.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Member No 1 View Post
    Needle wheel vs needle valve?
    More clarification so I can understand better.
    Not trying to get in a p match, just want to be sure I know what I’m talking about.
    Needle valve. I often accidentally use the terms interchangeably.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  9. #9
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    Gotcha!
    I pose this:
    Purpose of regulator is to step down the hi pressure input to a “working” pressure for a device.
    For sake of argument let’s say I have my regulator set to a working pressure (WP) of 14 psi. From there it goes to the needle valve, then the solenoid. When closed line pressure (LP) is at 14 psi. Solenoid opens, needle valve controls Flow through the solenoid but pressure remains close to 14 psi. Solenoid closes pressure returns to 14 psi.
    Now place the needle valve after the solenoid pressure in line is 14 psi closed and slightly under when open. Closed it returns to 14 psi.
    The needle valve is just that. It can control flow, but not pressure.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Member No 1 View Post
    Gotcha!
    I pose this:
    Purpose of regulator is to step down the hi pressure input to a “working” pressure for a device.
    For sake of argument let’s say I have my regulator set to a working pressure (WP) of 14 psi. From there it goes to the needle valve, then the solenoid. When closed line pressure (LP) is at 14 psi. Solenoid opens, needle valve controls Flow through the solenoid but pressure remains close to 14 psi. Solenoid closes pressure returns to 14 psi.
    Now place the needle valve after the solenoid pressure in line is 14 psi closed and slightly under when open. Closed it returns to 14 psi.
    The needle valve is just that. It can control flow, but not pressure.
    That is indeed correct for steady state but not during transient open and close operations. Let's say at steady state you have 14psi working pressure and 10psi after the needle valve when the solenoid is open. When you close the valve, it ramps from 10psi to 14psi making the pressure interruption easier on the solenoid while it has to break the pressure. Once it reaches the bottom and closes completely, the pressure pushes sideways instead of against the closing mechanism so it can handle more pressure fully closed than while trying to close.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  11. #11
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    Agreed!
    So anyone try using one to control Co2?
    I’ll be trying on my tank upgrade I a month or so.

  12. #12
    Frequent Visitor MJNTWise's Avatar
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    So if I get this right... you want to use the solenoid to turn on and off the co2 going to your reactor? And using a needle valve to control how much co2 going to your reactor?

  13. #13
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    Correct
    Soleniod to turn Co2 on and off depending on pH value.
    Needle valve to control bubble count.
    No different than the current practices, only using the Apex Solenoid to replace the 120v one to free up an outlet on the EB832.

  14. #14
    Frequent Visitor MJNTWise's Avatar
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    Interesting concept....I run a calcium reactor for 4 years and replace the solenoid on my regulator twice now.....this is something I might consider later on....

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    Well I replaced my Tunze 8555.200 solenoid which was plug on an EB6 via 12V power supply by an SV-1 (assuming it's OK according to Neptune website).

    So far it works well. It's been 3 weeks now.

    But now that I'm reading this thread I'm not sure it will stay ok.
    I don't really understand why it may go wrong and why the SV-1 might fail more than the tunze one.

  16. #16
    Frequent Visitor MJNTWise's Avatar
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    If it was me. I would have 2. One on co2 and one on effluent coming out to tank. Just for back up. But then again they are normally closed. So staying open all the time might be bad for them. Just my thoughts

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  17. #17
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    It is not open all the time.
    The aim of this is to control the pH in the Calcium Reactor, so when pH is too high the SV-1 open and CO2 gets in. Then pH goes down, at a certain level the SV-1 is closed.
    This allow to maintain a pH between 6.95 and 7.05 and for this The SV-1 is open every 6-7mn for about 20-25s.

  18. #18
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    Good idea, but I wouldn't put one on the effluent for the reason being if that solenoid failed closed, and the Co2 was still on (assuming it would shut off when the pH got to low), that you would pressurize the reactor to what ever pressure you have your regulator set to.
    The solenoids that come with the regulator/bubble counter setups are normally closed and they seem to hold up pretty well. No reason to think that the Apex one wouldn't also.

  19. #19
    Frequent Visitor MJNTWise's Avatar
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    I was just saying if you add a second one just for back up. That way if the first failed, you can set the second up as a failsafe...

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  20. #20
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    What about using the Neptune solenoid on a CO2 scrubber setup? Is that doable?

    What I was thinking was getting two of the Neptune solenoids. One for fresh air bypassing the scrubber into the skimmer and one for air going through the scrubber and then into the skimmer. Essentially letting the Apex controller open and close the solenoids based on the pH reading. For example, the skimmer would suck fresh air as long as the pH was at least 8.2. If the reading dipped below 8.2, it would switch to the scrubber and keep running it through the scrubber till it got back up to 8.2.

    Is my logic sound?
    Do you think they're big enough for skimmer intake air flow?

  21. #21
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post
    What about using the Neptune solenoid on a CO2 scrubber setup? Is that doable?

    Do you think they're big enough for skimmer intake air flow?
    No, the flow rate will be insufficient.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    No, the flow rate will be insufficient.
    That's disappointing. Would have been an easy solution.

    Any suggestions for a solenoid that would have the appropriate flow rate?

  23. #23
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    I believe people are actually doing this but with larger solenoids to control the scrubbers

  24. #24
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    If using the apex and the solenoid does work well this could potentially eliminate the need for spending $300-$400 on a carbon doser!

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