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Thread: Chiller

  1. #1
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    Chiller

    In the market for a new chiller , currently have a JBJ 1/4 hp chiller NOT running on my Apex, but would like to purchase one that will function well with my Apex..... any suggestions?


    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    That model is actually what most people use if they want it apex controlled.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  3. #3
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    I running a JBJ 1/5 hp, work great with my Apex.

  4. #4
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    How do you have you chiller programmed compared to your apex programming?
    Quote Originally Posted by Member No 1 View Post
    I running a JBJ 1/5 hp, work great with my Apex.

  5. #5
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    Chiller:
    Fallback ON
    If Temp_T > 79.4 Then ON
    If Temp_T < 79.0 Then OFF
    If Temp_S > 79.8 Then ON
    If Temp_S < 78.2 Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 012 Then OFF

    Heater Main:
    Fallback ON
    If Temp_T < 78.1 Then ON
    If Temp_T > 78.6 Then OFF
    If Temp_T < 70.0 Then OFF
    If Temp_S < 79.5 Then ON
    If Temp_S > 80.5 Then OFF
    If Temp_S < 70.0 Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 002 Then OFF

    Heater Back Up:
    Fallback OFF
    If Temp_T < 77.6 Then ON
    If Temp_T < 70.0 Then OFF
    If Output Heater_Main = ON Then ON
    If Output Heater_Main = OFF Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 003 Then OFF

  6. #6
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    I see well that was simple, do you have your chiller set at any particular setting? I am aware it keeps the settings in the event of a power failure. and thanks for the info!
    Quote Originally Posted by Member No 1 View Post
    Chiller:
    Fallback ON
    If Temp_T > 79.4 Then ON
    If Temp_T < 79.0 Then OFF
    If Temp_S > 79.8 Then ON
    If Temp_S < 78.2 Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 012 Then OFF

    Heater Main:
    Fallback ON
    If Temp_T < 78.1 Then ON
    If Temp_T > 78.6 Then OFF
    If Temp_T < 70.0 Then OFF
    If Temp_S < 79.5 Then ON
    If Temp_S > 80.5 Then OFF
    If Temp_S < 70.0 Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 002 Then OFF

    Heater Back Up:
    Fallback OFF
    If Temp_T < 77.6 Then ON
    If Temp_T < 70.0 Then OFF
    If Output Heater_Main = ON Then ON
    If Output Heater_Main = OFF Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 003 Then OFF

  7. #7
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    Since the temp range on the chiller has a 2-3* swing, and it's been a while since I adjusted it, I believe I have it set to 77*.
    It does retain the last setting as the Apex turns the power off and on to the chiller.
    On my "Things To Do" list, I have been toying with the idea of using a relay that would be controlled by Apex that would control the chiller without having to cut power to the entire unit.
    It's low on the list, but I will this year. Need to look at the wiring schematic again.

  8. #8
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    I am trying to fail safe my chiller. It's a Teco Chiller that has it's own build in temp on and off function.

    I want it to shut down (powered off if internal shutoff fails) by apex if temp is < 74.5, and powered on (stay powered) when temp >75.0.
    (The chiller's own build in settings are on at 76.3 and off at 75.3)

    I want to avoid false power on, and off due to temp fluctuations.

    The Min time statement is for delaying the chiller coming on right away after power is restored in case of a power outage, and comes back on after 30 secs after power off maintenance cycle is manually ended.

    Does the below makes sense and will it work?
    Any help is greatly appreciated.



    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Tmp > 75.0 Then ON
    If Tmp < 74.5 Then OFF
    Defer 000:15 Then ON
    Defer 000:15 Then OFF
    Min Time 000:30 Then OFF



    If Output DANpump_2_7 = OFF Then OFF
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = ON Then ON
    If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 000 Then OFF
    When You're a NOOB, You need lots of help all the time

  9. #9
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Remember, the last TRUE statement will determine the state of the outlet.

    So DANpump_2_7 = ON/OFF Then ON/OFF will override the temp commands. How is the pump being used?

    The Set OFF should be removed, it will interfere with your desired temp range.

    The Min Time...OFF will apply whenever the outlet is OFF. It will prevent the outlet from coming back ON for at least 30 seconds, for any reason. If you want it to only apply to the power condition, then use If Power Apex 001 OFF Then OFF. {I don't think it can do seconds}.

  10. #10
    Frequent Visitor 2mk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Remember, the last TRUE statement will determine the state of the outlet.

    So DANpump_2_7 = ON/OFF Then ON/OFF will override the temp commands. How is the pump being used?

    The Set OFF should be removed, it will interfere with your desired temp range.

    The Min Time...OFF will apply whenever the outlet is OFF. It will prevent the outlet from coming back ON for at least 30 seconds, for any reason. If you want it to only apply to the power condition, then use If Power Apex 001 OFF Then OFF. {I don't think it can do seconds}.
    Thanks for the reply first.

    1. You mean I should delete the "Set On" Statement in line 2? ( And not the "Set Off" Statement)

    If I delete this line, will power not cut off from the chiller when those temps are reached?

    The intention here is only to cut off power to the chiller when temp < 74.5 or below in case the chiller malfunctions and keeps cooling without shutting down when minimum temp is reached (If Tmp > 75.0 Then ON &
    If Tmp < 74.5 Then OFF).

    Note that the chiller on/off is controlled by the chiller internal thermostat. (Chiller is Apex powered does not mean chiller is on and cooling).

    So do I still delete the "Set On" statement? That is my big question here.


    (My temp settings for DT is the chiller's own build in settings are on at 76.3 and off at 75.3 is desired)


    2. "So DANpump_2_7 = ON/OFF Then ON/OFF will override the temp commands. How is the pump being used?'

    DANpump is my Chiller Sump Return Pump Outlet Switch. It is used to shut off the Chiller automatically if the return pump is off to prevent Chiller damage due to no flow when chiller is on. As long as the DANpump is on, the chiller will be powered (as powered on, and not necessarily on chilling).


    3. "The Min Time...OFF will apply whenever the outlet is OFF. It will prevent the outlet from coming back ON for at least 30 seconds, for any reason. "

    The 30 seconds is for maintenance occasions that I turn off devices using a virtual switch that turns off: Return pump, chiller, skimmers, and DT power heads, etc. Once Maintenance is done, Vo Maintenance will be set back to on manually. Instead of having all devices come on at the same time and create a heavy load draw, each device is set to turn back on with a "Defer Satement" delay. Like the Skimmer, is set at 3 min delay to prevent a skimmer overflow due to the skimmer sump level increase from the DT's back siphon. Also to prevent the same from power outages.

    Is this done correctly?

    4. "If you want it to only apply to the power condition, then use If Power Apex 001 OFF Then OFF. {I don't think it can do seconds}"

    This is the biggy. I had an issue yesterday with a power outage.

    Everything is shut off. When power came back on, the skimmer started up without the delay specify at the skimmer outlet. This happened the first time after I put in the "If Apex off" statement.

    So how would I approach this issue. Do I take the defer statement all the way to the end? Or do I modify the "If apex Off" Statement in every Vo Device I have?

    Currently, My Skimmer code is as follows:

    Fallback OFF
    Set ON
    If FeedA 000 Then OFF
    Defer 003:00 Then ON
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = OFF Then OFF
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = ON Then ON
    If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 000 Then OFF

    Currently, My DANPump return pump code is as follows:

    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If OPx4_3 CLOSED Then OFF
    If OPx4_4 CLOSED Then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 000 Then OFF

    Currently, My Chiller code is as folows:

    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Tmp > 75.0 Then ON
    If Tmp < 74.5 Then OFF
    Defer 000:15 Then ON
    Defer 000:15 Then OFF
    Min Time 000:30 Then OFF
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = OFF Then OFF
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = ON Then ON
    If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 001 Then OFF
    When You're a NOOB, You need lots of help all the time

  11. #11
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Yes, I meant Set ON in line 2. It is redundant to If Temp....ON. You could use either, but the bigger problem is your pump code. If the pump is ON, the chiller outlet will be ON regardless of any prior code. So the Temp statements are effectively ignored/useless.

    Let's start at the beginning. The nominal condition of the chiller outlet should be ON. Then let's add conditional overrides:

    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Tmp < 74.5 Then OFF
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = OFF Then OFF
    If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 000 Then OFF
    Defer 000:30 Then ON

    I don't think you need both Defers, or the Min Time commands. The way this should work, is that when it turns OFF, for any reason, it is immediate. Then, whenever it attempts to turn ON, there is a 30 second delay before doing so.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Yes, I meant Set ON in line 2. It is redundant to If Temp....ON. You could use either, but the bigger problem is your pump code. If the pump is ON, the chiller outlet will be ON regardless of any prior code. So the Temp statements are effectively ignored/useless.

    Let's start at the beginning. The nominal condition of the chiller outlet should be ON. Then let's add conditional overrides:

    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Tmp < 74.5 Then OFF
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = OFF Then OFF
    If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 000 Then OFF
    Defer 000:30 Then ON

    I don't think you need both Defers, or the Min Time commands. The way this should work, is that when it turns OFF, for any reason, it is immediate. Then, whenever it attempts to turn ON, there is a 30 second delay before doing so.

    Thanks again Todd.

    Let me run this through and tell me if i understand it correctly while I am learning some general programming here myself.

    Fallback ON (means outlet state is on after a power outage)
    Set ON (means if it's off set it back to on?)
    If Tmp < 74.5 Then OFF (shuts off Outlet if temp is reached, otherwise it's on)
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = OFF Then OFF (Shuts outlet if DANpump is off, & turns on outlet when DANpump is on)
    If Output Maintenance = ON Then OFF (Shuts outlet if Maintenance is manually turned off, & turns on outlet Maintenance is manually turned on)
    If Power Apex Off 000 Then OFF (shuts {battery UPS backup} outlet if power outage on Apex Head Unit plugged to wall mains is detected)
    Defer 000:30 Then ON (anytime the outlet is off, delay 30 seconds then turned it back on no matter what means turns it back on again)

    All of this code will keep the outlet on and shut off only when temp is < 74.5, or any other condition shuts if off?
    When You're a NOOB, You need lots of help all the time

  13. #13
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Fallback applies when communication is lost between the Apex head unit and a module. For example, the cable comes loose. You might have power, but the commands are not received by the module. It is a default mode for the outlet.

    Each statement is evaluated top to bottom (w/ a couple exceptions). If FALSE, the command is skipped. If TRUE, the pending state of the outlet is changed accordingly (ON/OFF). After all commands evaluated, the remaining pending state will determine the outlet state.

    So:

    Set ON : always TRUE, so pending state is ON
    If Tmp < 74.5 Then OFF : if FALSE, ignore/skip; if TRUE pending state is set to OFF
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = OFF Then OFF : if FALSE, ignore/skip; if TRUE pending state is set to OFF (the opposite condition is not evaluated)
    ...
    ...
    Defer 000:30 Then ON : if previous state was OFF and pending state is ON, it must remain so for a continuous 30 seconds before allowing state to
    : change to ON

    So, yes; assuming all commands other than SET ON are FALSE, the outlet will remain ON.

    In your original code, you had a condition that would set the outlet to ON when the pump was ON, so that would have overwritten the pending state of anything that had set it to OFF.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Fallback applies when communication is lost between the Apex head unit and a module. For example, the cable comes loose. You might have power, but the commands are not received by the module. It is a default mode for the outlet.

    Each statement is evaluated top to bottom (w/ a couple exceptions). If FALSE, the command is skipped. If TRUE, the pending state of the outlet is changed accordingly (ON/OFF). After all commands evaluated, the remaining pending state will determine the outlet state.

    So:

    Set ON : always TRUE, so pending state is ON
    If Tmp < 74.5 Then OFF : if FALSE, ignore/skip; if TRUE pending state is set to OFF
    If Output DANpump_2_7 = OFF Then OFF : if FALSE, ignore/skip; if TRUE pending state is set to OFF (the opposite condition is not evaluated)
    ...
    ...
    Defer 000:30 Then ON : if previous state was OFF and pending state is ON, it must remain so for a continuous 30 seconds before allowing state to
    : change to ON

    So, yes; assuming all commands other than SET ON are FALSE, the outlet will remain ON.

    In your original code, you had a condition that would set the outlet to ON when the pump was ON, so that would have overwritten the pending state of anything that had set it to OFF.
    Thank You very much for the help and rundown.

    I have a better insight into the coding now. I was trying to improve code lines by adding to existing code, afraid to delete some lines that I did not understand, and wind up having that mess.

    I have actually updated all my other devices codes based on logic You have explained to me by eliminating redundant code lines.

    So is it best to set Fallback to "ON" for all outlets instead of "OFF"?
    Well for things like a skimmer, pump, power head Fallback should be ON?
    And for things like a OSC programmed device, Fallback should be OFF?


    Thanks again.
    When You're a NOOB, You need lots of help all the time

  15. #15
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2mk View Post

    So is it best to set Fallback to "ON" for all outlets instead of "OFF"?
    Well for things like a skimmer, pump, power head Fallback should be ON?
    And for things like a OSC programmed device, Fallback should be OFF?
    It really depends on the device and often choosing the 'lesser of two evils'. So a skimmer or pump is probably best to have ON. Heaters/Chillers/Fans can be tricky. If they have independent thermostats, then ON seems reasonable. For something potentially catastrophic like ATO, then OFF would be the safest choice.

  16. #16
    Frequent Visitor 2mk's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    It really depends on the device and often choosing the 'lesser of two evils'. So a skimmer or pump is probably best to have ON. Heaters/Chillers/Fans can be tricky. If they have independent thermostats, then ON seems reasonable. For something potentially catastrophic like ATO, then OFF would be the safest choice.
    Got it. Thanks again. I will re-examine all my codes again for this to make sure there will be no disaster that is in the making.
    When You're a NOOB, You need lots of help all the time

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