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Thread: Outlet time out / max run time

  1. #1
    Regular Vistor
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    Outlet time out / max run time

    Hello, I have a question regarding programming of an outlet for a max run (on) time. I have a DIY ATO running off a 12v fountain pump with float switches wired in. I just set up my apex and haven't gotten around to making a BOB yet so i'm using my old ATO for now. I figured since the possibilities are endless with these controllers, why not try to add another bit of redundancy to my current ATO.

    Ok, on to my question... Basically I was to set my ATO outlet (which is just a 12v power adapter for small pump) to shut off after 15 seconds of running or something like that. It takes literally 2-3 seconds to top my return section off but 15 seconds is just a number I figured would be best. My main concern is burning my pump up in case I run the top off container dry. I have a second float switch for too high of water level as well but a timer would be better.


    TLDR; What code do I put into an outlet to turn off that outlet after 15 seconds? Possibly defer time after feedB (water change mode). Right now I have the outlet set to always on.

  2. #2
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    You can do that with the When command.

    https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...-Firmware-4-52
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    You can do that with the When command.

    https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...-Firmware-4-52

    Fantastic. Thank you! I'm new to apex and controllers in general. I thought I had done as much research as possible with no real info on how to program this command. This forum is amazing, thanks.


    Mods please delete if you'd like, so not to crowd the page.

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    What Russ said was correct, however, you cannot utilize that feature on a self contained ATO. It will only work if you have the apex actually controlling the pump itself.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    What Russ said was correct, however, you cannot utilize that feature on a self contained ATO. It will only work if you have the apex actually controlling the pump itself.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Reading over the FAQ sheet, I should be able to turn the outlet off after a certain amount of time regardless of what's plugged into it. It says I must manually move the slider back to the AUTO or ON position for it to continue to work as it should. I assume I could setup an alarm to tell me if that outlet timer has run out and turned that outlet off. With that alarm I can then check to see what the problem is (stuck switch, empty container, etc.) and then decide to turn that outlet back on.

    Is this correct?

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Not unless you have the floats wired into the breakout box. Your apex version has no way to tell if the downstream device is running, only if the outlet itself is on. You will need to disassemble your DIY ATO wiring and hook it up to a breakout box in order to do max time.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Not unless you have the floats wired into the breakout box. Your apex version has no way to tell if the downstream device is running, only if the outlet itself is on. You will need to disassemble your DIY ATO wiring and hook it up to a breakout box in order to do max time.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

    Ah, I see. Makes sense now. It can't tell if it's pulling power or not. Interesting. I have everything to make a BOB, i'm just too lazy to actually work on soldering it all together. I guess I need to get to it lol.


    That said, what code would you suggest once BOB is installed? Obviously the names of outlets will differ, but maybe a general idea?

  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineAndAhalf View Post
    Ah, I see. Makes sense now. It can't tell if it's pulling power or not. Interesting. I have everything to make a BOB, i'm just too lazy to actually work on soldering it all together. I guess I need to get to it lol.


    That said, what code would you suggest once BOB is installed? Obviously the names of outlets will differ, but maybe a general idea?
    This is the reccomended starting code. Start with the when at a large value like 5 min then adjust the When timing to 2-3 times the longest runtime in a 24-48 hour test period (make sure to check the enable log checkbox). This assumes your floats are oriented UP = OPEN, which is preferred for failure modes.

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If LowSw CLOSED Then ON
    If HighSw OPEN Then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:04 Then OFF
    When On > 005:00 Then ON
    Min Time 060:00 Then OFF



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    This is the reccomended starting code. Start with the when at a large value like 5 min then adjust the When timing to 2-3 times the longest runtime in a 24-48 hour test period (make sure to check the enable log checkbox). This assumes your floats are oriented UP = OPEN, which is preferred for failure modes.

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If LowSw CLOSED Then ON
    If HighSw OPEN Then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:04 Then OFF
    When On > 005:00 Then ON
    Min Time 060:00 Then OFF



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

    Fantastic. Now just out of curiosity and to farther understand how all of this works, what is the 4 second defer for? Also what does the min time do?

  10. #10
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The defers are there so that the apex is "certain" that the float has actually changed state and it wasn't just a noise spike or a wave.

    The min time limits how often the pump can run by not allowing it to run unless it has been at least 1 hour since the last top off. This is to maximize the life of the pump being used.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The defers are there so that the apex is "certain" that the float has actually changed state and it wasn't just a noise spike or a wave.

    The min time limits how often the pump can run by not allowing it to run unless it has been at least 1 hour since the last top off. This is to maximize the life of the pump being used.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Great. Thanks again!

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