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Thread: Outlet going to 'OFF' mode after completing cycle

  1. #1
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    Outlet going to 'OFF' mode after completing cycle

    I've got an outlet set up to control a solenoid valve to refill my ATO reservoir. It's been in place for a couple of weeks, and it's working, but I'm finding from time to time when I sign on to Fusion that the outlet is set to 'OFF' rather than 'AUTO'. First couple of times, I just figured that I'd somehow switched it without noticing, but it's happened too often for that. It's not happening every time the ATO reservoir refill cycle completes, but almost ever time.

    APEX Classic, EB8, outlet number 6, powering a 110vac solenoid from AirWaterIce.
    ATO_Lo is a normally open float switch that goes closed when water hits low level
    ATO_Hi is a normally open float switch that goes closed when water hits high level
    (There is a float valve incorporated, for safety.)
    Timer to catch excessive length run times.
    I'm trending the outlet, run times are normally 130 minutes or so. I've yet to see a 150 minute cycle, indicating that the upper limit switch is completing the cycle.
    BOB is a DIY version, I know, probably can't support that, but I'm not having problems reading the two level sensors.

    To restate, everything running fine, until I open Fusion, and find this outlet in 'OFF' position. Any way I can tell what made it turn off? Is there perhaps a safety feature that will turn the outlet off if certain electrical conditions are encountered? If so, there could easily be something wrong with the solenoid... just a cheap valve I picked up. I noted the other day that ATO_Lo was CLOSED and that the outlet was OFF. Manually switched it back to AUTO, and the refill cycle started normally.

    Programming:

    Fallback OFF
    If ATO_Lo CLOSED Then ON
    If ATO_Hi CLOSED Then OFF
    When On > 150:00 Then OFF

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    That means it ran longer than 2.5 hours. I would set it to around 1.5 times trending so 3 hours is probably best.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    So... the statement

    When On > 150:00 Then OFF

    Doesn't just turn the outlet off, but actually switches the state of the outlet from AUTO to OFF?

    Is there a timeout that would just turn the outlet off, and leave it in AUTO mode?

  4. #4
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Correct.

    An alternative would be to create a virtual outlet and use the Defer command to create a lockout timer. But you would still have to 'reset' the VO at some point. One other way is to create a 'window' of time in which the filling can occur. That is what I do for my ATO. I created a VO called ATO_Allow with an OSC command to create multiple windows throughout the day. This would not strictly prevent an overfill failure, but limit the scope.

  5. #5
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    If you want it to self reset, you can use a virtual outlet. It's super easy for this scenario because you don't have a set OFF in the solenoid outlet.

    StopSol
    Set OFF
    If Outlet Solenoidname = ON Then ON
    Defer 150:00 Then ON
    Defer 000:02 Then OFF

    Solenoid
    Fallback OFF
    If ATO_Lo CLOSED Then ON
    If ATO_Hi CLOSED Then OFF
    If Outlet StopSol = ON Then OFF



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  6. #6
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    zombie, I usually avoid having two outlets each controlling the other due to a race condition occuring and getting wonky behavior. It looks like the Defer 000:02 Then OFF would prevent that however?

  7. #7
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    zombie, I usually avoid having two outlets each controlling the other due to a race condition occuring and getting wonky behavior. It looks like the Defer 000:02 Then OFF would prevent that however?
    The defer is just there to make sure it holds the full processing cycle.

    The two outlets controlling each other is not an issue in this case just because there isn't a set OFF in the solenoid. The same can be done safely for heaters, chillers, etc that use a hysteresis control. This method would not work for something with a Set OFF because it would create a circular reference.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for your assistance. I've set the timer to 3 hours, it's going to be a rare thing for my RO system to fail to reach ATO_Hi in that time... and there is a float valve above the ATO_Hi sensor that should catch it if the sensor fails. The timer is just there because it was easy to implement, one additional level of safety.

    I may look into adding a virtual outlet at some point.

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