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Thread: why 360 when programming with Seasonal Table.

  1. #1
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    why 360 when programming with Seasonal Table.

    i was looking around at setting different LED channels to start at different times with respect to the Seasonal Table. it seems that 360 is the most common "delay" that keeps showing up with the sample programs for an entire day. is there a reason why 360 is used instead of something closer to 720? which to me would be closer to a full day according to the Seasonal table.

    Thank You,

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Those delays are such that the offset won't interfere with other lines but can still overlap where necessary. 360 is just a good go by that works for most situations. The actual value necessary is dependent on the season table itself and what you want to happen.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  3. #3
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    thank you, that is what i was figuring, but wanted confirmation. i was not sure if there was a deeper meaning that when 360 was used it meant "to the beginning/end" or something like that.

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    It helps if you draw it out for the shortest and longest day on some graph paper. You don't want the RampUp and rampdown overlapping each other at any point that isn't the "daylight" or "noon" area if that makes sense.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  5. #5
    Regular Vistor RRR's Avatar
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    Is there a sequence for using more than just 3 time frames. I am trying to set my XR15 FW 4 Proto across 5 daylight time frames:


    If OutletvMoonlight = ON Then RAD_Moon
    If Sun000/-360 Then RAD_SunUp
    If Sun360/000 Then RAD_SunDown
    If Sun060/-060 Then RAD_MidMorn
    If Sun030/-030 Then RAD_MidDay
    If Sun030/-030 Then RAD_MidAfNn
    If Sun060/-060 Then RAD_PreSnSt


    I seem to be having a programing issue with the "If Sun030/-030 Then RAD_MidAfNn" statement. When I save it, and refresh, it changes to "If Sun030/-030 Then 0".

    Any suggestions??





  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    You go progressively from the top being the most "outside" to the bottom being the most "central"

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  7. #7
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRR View Post
    Is there a sequence for using more than just 3 time frames. I am trying to set my XR15 FW 4 Proto across 5 daylight time frames:


    If OutletvMoonlight = ON Then RAD_Moon
    If Sun000/-360 Then RAD_SunUp
    If Sun360/000 Then RAD_SunDown
    If Sun060/-060 Then RAD_MidMorn
    If Sun030/-030 Then RAD_MidDay
    If Sun030/-030 Then RAD_MidAfNn
    If Sun060/-060 Then RAD_PreSnSt


    I seem to be having a programing issue with the "If Sun030/-030 Then RAD_MidAfNn" statement. When I save it, and refresh, it changes to "If Sun030/-030 Then 0".

    Any suggestions??




    There must be a space after the word Sun.

    Verify that you use the exact name of the profile. Names are case-sensitive.
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  8. #8
    Regular Vistor RRR's Avatar
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    Thanks Russ. The actual programing verbiage has a space after the word "Sun" (typing into these boxes doesn't take the key strokes very well and its hard to catch the mis-key stroke errors).

    Spacing and naming were correct in the program verbiage I wrote into the APEX Program, its just that when I saved and refreshed, that line would changed to "If Sun 030/-030 Then 0".

    I don't know enough on how the 360 verbiage impacts the steps in the lighting schedule. I saw Zombie's comment below, but not sure how it works. An example would be helpful and I should be able to take it from there??

    Could it be that the 12 hour sunup to sundown window (000/-360 & 360/000) is less than the actual sunup to sundown window I have programmed on the lighting graph or that my time frame points and durations are overlapping and negating the time for RAD_MidANn?

    One final observation. After I save the programming verbiage, and turn back to the lighting graph page, APEX wants me to save again. If I do, it wipes out the programming verbiage I just wrote and replaces it with tdata programming for the graph? What am I doing wrong?? I thought that the written programing verbiage would modify the graph to match, so colors could be adjusted via the sliders.

  9. #9
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    There is a good graphic here.

    https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...seasonal-table

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  10. #10
    Regular Vistor RRR's Avatar
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    Thanks Zombie. This looks like it makes some sense. Let me play with it and I'll let you know.

    Thanks Again for the help.

  11. #11
    Regular Vistor RRR's Avatar
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    Zombie:

    Here is what I came up with, and am testing now. These Radion Programs are 2 of the 6 of the daily seasonal schedule. I cannot go beyond 600 on the time variables. I am delaying each Program after the Left Side Program by 2:30 incrementally to reflect an east to west sun movement across the tank (not sure if I is in the correct location within the Program's sequence.
    • Rad_13_17_L: Left Tank Side.
    • Rad_13_18_LM: Left-Middle Tank Side.
    • Rad_13_19_LC: Left-Center Left Tank Side.
    • Rad_13_20_RC: Right-Center Tank Side.
    • Rad_13_21_RM: Right-Middle Tank Side.
    • Rad_13_22_R: Right Tank Side.


    (WXM Outletfor Radion FW XR15 G4 PRO – Left Center Side)
    Rad_13_19_LC
    Set OFF
    If Sun 000/-600 Then RAD_SunUp
    If Sun 600/000 Then RAD_SunDown
    If Sun 060/-555 Then RAD_MidMorn
    If Sun 195/-435 Then RAD_MidDay
    If Sun 315/-315 Then RAD_AftNoon
    If Sun 450/-195 Then RAD_MidAfNn
    If Sun 555/-060 Then RAD_PreSnSt
    If Output vMoonlight = ON Then RAD_Moon
    Defer 005:00 Then ON
    If Output v PreWeather = ON Then PreWeather
    If Output v Cloudy = ON Then Cloudy
    If Output v Stormy = ON Then Stormy
    If Output v PostWeather = ON Then PostWeather
    If Output v RAD_DEMO = ON Then RAD_DEMO

    (WXM Outletfor Radion FW XR15 G4 PRO – Right Center Side)
    Rad_13_20_RC
    Set OFF
    If Sun 000/-600 Then RAD_SunUp
    If Sun 600/000 Then RAD_SunDown
    If Sun 060/-555 Then RAD_MidMorn
    If Sun 195/-435 Then RAD_MidDay
    If Sun 315/-315 Then RAD_AftNoon
    If Sun 450/-195 Then RAD_MidAfNn
    If Sun 555/-060 Then RAD_PreSnSt
    If Output vMoonlight = ON Then RAD_Moon
    Defer 007:30 Then ON
    If Outputv PreWeather = ON Then PreWeather
    If Outputv Cloudy = ON Then Cloudy
    If Outputv Stormy = ON Then Stormy
    If Outputv PostWeather = ON Then PostWeather
    If Outputv RAD_DEMO = ON Then RAD_DEMO

    The sample Profiles calibration color channels below appear to match up with the Radion XR15F FW G4 Pro's color channels (R, , B, CW & WW) with "White" matching Cool white.

    PF1 – Radion
    RAD_SunUp
    Red Intensity: 50
    Blue Intensity: 100
    Green Intensity: 75
    Cool White Intensity: 100
    Warm White Intensity: 75
    Start Overall Intensity 0
    End Overall Intensity 50
    Ramp Time 30

    PF2 – Radion
    RAD_MidMorn
    Red Intensity: 75
    Blue Intensity: 100
    Green Intensity: 100
    Cool White Intensity: 75
    Warm White Intensity: 100
    Start Overall Intensity 50
    End Overall Intensity 90
    Ramp Time 60


    Configuration (Rad_MidMorn)
    White Intensity: 75%
    Blue Intensity: 100%
    Royal Blue Intensity: 0%
    Green Intensity: 100%
    Red Intensity: 75%
    UV Intensity: 0%
    Violet Intensity: 0%
    Warm White Intensity: 100%
    Start Overall Intensity: 50%
    End Overall Intensity: 90%
    Ramp Time: 60

    I have included a JPG of the of the Seasonable Time Table that I drew to layout the overlaps based on the longest day of the year at my location.

    Please review and comment.

  12. #12
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Those timings aren't going to work. You need something like this basic form the 360 and -360 will most likely work but it depends on actual rise and set times.

    If Sun 000/-360 Then morning
    If Sun 360/000 Then evening
    If Sun 060/-360 Then beforenoon
    If Sun 360/-060 Then afternoon
    If Sun 120/-120 Then midday

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  13. #13
    Regular Vistor RRR's Avatar
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    OK, I'll try something simpler.

    But I just ran through a full day and their ramp up was good, mid-day was at 100% and am approaching sun down and they are at 13%. They appear to be working, but my time parameters may be too long and may cause problems. If I need to stay with the 360 limits, I'll try something simpler. The programming order an sequencing you should is very helpful.

    I'll try to stay within the 360 limits an let you know.

    Thanks for the input and comments.

  14. #14
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    It has nothing to do with 360 limits. You are using the overlaps wrong. I just checked your code in excel and you have gaps in all timeframes except the first two and last two (in shortest day). Assuming standard season table, your lights will be off between 9:30 and 10:30, 11:30 and 12:30, 13:30 and 14:30, and 15:30 and 16:30. Your setup also wont increase midday hours as the seasons change but will instead just change the start time of ramps based on when sunrise is.

    When you draw out the times, it needs to make an upside down pyramid. Please explain in words how you want the ramp up and down to occur and I can give you the correct code.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  15. #15
    Regular Vistor RRR's Avatar
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    Zombie:

    Thanks for the insight. Previous code may have worked for today (no outages occurred throughout the yesterday), but as we approach shortest days there certainly could be gaps in the Timeline.

    I re-wrote code last night to read as follows, and athough the moning should work, I think my afternoon is still off:

    Set OFF
    If Sun 000/-360 Then RAD_SunUp
    If Sun 360/000 Then RAD_SunDown
    If Sun 045/-360 Then RAD_MidMorn
    If Sun 360/-030 Then RAD_PreSnSt
    If Sun 135/-360 Then RAD_MidDay
    If Sun 360/-090 Then RAD_MidAfNn
    If Sun 225/-225 Then RAD_AftNoon
    If Output vMoonlight = ON Then RAD_Moon
    Defer 007:30 Then ON
    If Output vPreWeather = ON Then PreWeather
    If Output vCloudy = ON Then Cloudy
    If Output vStormy = ON Then Stormy
    If Output vPostWeather = ON Then PostWeather
    If Output vRAD_DEMO = ON Then RAD_DEMO
    If Tmp > 87.5 Then OFF
    If Temp < 85 Then ON

    Here is the intension of the lighting schedule:

    • SunUp: Color Profile #01
      • Start at sunrise.
      • Ramp up to 50% in 30 minutes

    • MidMorn: Color Profile #02
      • Start 45 minutes after start of SunUp.
      • Ramp up to 90% in 60 minutes.

    • MidDay: Color Profile #03
      • Start 90 minutes after start of MidMorn.
      • Ramp up to 100% in 30 minutes.

    • AftNoon: Color Profile #04
      • Start 90 minutes after start of MidDay (225 minutes after sunrise).
      • Ramp up to 100% in 30 minutes.
      • End 225 minutes before sunset.

    • MidAfNn: Color Profile #05
      • Start 135 minutes before start of PreSnSt (225 minutes before sunset).
      • Ramp down to 90% in 30 minutes.

    • PreSnSt: Color Profile #06
      • Start 60 minutes before start of SunDown (90 minutes before sunset).
      • Ramp down to 25% in 60 minutes.

    • SunDown: Color Profile #07
      • Start 30 minutes before sunset).
      • Ramp down to 0% in 30 minutes.


    Hope you can make this work!!

  16. #16
    Regular Vistor RRR's Avatar
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    Zombie:

    Have you had a chance to look a this. Really would appreciate your input!!

  17. #17
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Looks fine.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  18. #18
    Regular Vistor RRR's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help and review comments. Really appreciate it. Seam to be working

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