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Thread: Help how to set up carbondoser ph/alkalinity

  1. #26
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Yeah, except there shouldn't be a space in the probename.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    It will turn on and off fairly often. With the right bubble count I had mine on a 15min on 15 min off cycle when I had a carbon doser. The carbon doser will not wear out from frequent on/off cycles like a traditional solenoid.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Zombie,

    Im trying to mimic a posters' geo 618 + AP carbon doser + Apex 2016 setup for my 180g. To summarize, the thought process is establishing a steady effluent stream (not drops), start off at a high CaRx reactor PH range of [email protected] and [email protected], then adjust the range down until you match your tank uptake. Without getting into if this thesis is right or not, can you review my programming if I am missing something?

    Also, what kind of fail safes should I program in? Right now it runs off my manifold.


  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makers Marc View Post
    Zombie,

    Im trying to mimic a posters' geo 618 + AP carbon doser + Apex 2016 setup for my 180g. To summarize, the thought process is establishing a steady effluent stream (not drops), start off at a high CaRx reactor PH range of [email protected] and [email protected], then adjust the range down until you match your tank uptake. Without getting into if this thesis is right or not, can you review my programming if I am missing something?

    Also, what kind of fail safes should I program in? Right now it runs off my manifold.

    You also want a failsafe for low tank pH in the 7.8 to 7.9 range depending on where you tank usually sits.

    You want the bounds tighter with a carbon doser and 7.4 to 7.5 will not be low enough to actually make real effluent. You want that somewhere between 6.4 and 6.8 depending on the media you use. I liked to stick near the higher end of that range because I didn't want to come home to a pile of mush if my effluent pump failed.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  4. #29
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    So when you say bounds tighter, do you mean I should make my programming be between 7.30 and 7.31 instead of 7.30 and 7.40?

    Attached is how my reactors' Ph has behaved the past 24 hrs. You can see where I lowered my range by .05.

    I understand that the ending ph should eventually be lower in the 6.4-6.8 range. But right now my alk demand is so low, and im trying to avoid any effluent clogging or spikes in my tank, which explains the fastwr effluent and cautioness with too low a ph to startoff.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makers Marc View Post
    So when you say bounds tighter, do you mean I should make my programming be between 7.30 and 7.31 instead of 7.30 and 7.40?

    Attached is how my reactors' Ph has behaved the past 24 hrs. You can see where I lowered my range by .05.

    I understand that the ending ph should eventually be lower in the 6.4-6.8 range. But right now my alk demand is so low, and im trying to avoid any effluent clogging or spikes in my tank, which explains the fastwr effluent and cautioness with too low a ph to startoff.
    Yes you want them 0.01 apart with a carbon doser for optimal accuracy.

    I would start below 7 for your setpoint and adjust the effluent flow rate to maintain alk to start. Above 7 the amount of melt is inconsistent to non-existent and may not provide any alk at all. After you have it tuned for now, as your corals grow or you add new ones, you can just adjust the pH and leave the effluent flow alone to raise alk added.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  6. #31
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    Ok well it's been a few days since the last time you gave me advice
    and my alkalinity is still going down day by day
    Two days ago I added alkalinity and then yesterday I did a test and It went up to 7.8 and today I did another test and it was back to 7.6. My alkalinity from effluent is 28 and 5 days ago it was 26 today I checked it and it was 28
    I'm adding effluent 45ml a min (I had it at 35 three days ago and today I noted that it went up to 42ml how? I don't know no one touched the valve)
    im using 100 bubble a minute and the second valve open at 12psi

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated tank you

  7. #32
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    Make sure your magnesium is in check. If it is, just keep bumping the flow until it stays stable.

    Use this equation to determine approximately how much the effluent flow needs to change.

    Flowrate = old flowrate + 25 * (yesterday's KH - today's KH) * tank volume in gallons / (9 * effluent KH * today's KH)

    If you have a 100 gallon tank, you only need the slightest change like the tiniest turn you can make on the effluent because you would only need 45.25 ml/min to equalize.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  8. #33
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    i used the equation this was my result
    .82=35+25*(7.8-7.6)*450/(9*26*28)

    im going to change my effluent to 82ml/min what I didn't understand was the last part about If I have a 100 gallon tank I have a 450 gallon tank does this affect me

  9. #34
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    The 100 was just an example. I didn't know what size tank you have.

    You made a mistake in the calculation though. You need 6 more ml/min

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Make sure your magnesium is in check. If it is, just keep bumping the flow until it stays stable.

    Use this equation to determine approximately how much the effluent flow needs to change.

    Flowrate = old flowrate + 25 * (yesterday's KH - today's KH) * tank volume in gallons / (9 * effluent KH * today's KH)

    If you have a 100 gallon tank, you only need the slightest change like the tiniest turn you can make on the effluent because you would only need 45.25 ml/min to equalize.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Zombie,

    Do I need to employ "please excuse my dear aunt sally" or can I just go left to right (j/k but not..)

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makers Marc View Post
    Zombie,

    Do I need to employ "please excuse my dear aunt sally" or can I just go left to right (j/k but not..)
    Yep. Proper order of operations is required. If you use a TI-89 emulator on your phone like me, you don't need to remember those.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  12. #37
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    Ok well I'm back
    the calcio reactor just seems not to work it doesn't want to maintain the alkalinity
    stable i opened up the effluent as much as zombie told me (88 ml/min) everything dropped so it didn't work for me
    the alkalinity in the reactor went down to 26.8 and it used to be 28.8 the alkalinity in the system went down to 6.9

    my water parameter are calcio 420, magnesium 1420 any idea what's happening do you think the calcio reactor media is not working also I've noticed that the media is melting but I don't see a strong potency

  13. #38
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Are you using expired test kits?

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by snipersps View Post
    zombie told me (88 ml/min)
    You misinterpreted my equation and response. You needed to increase the rate my 6ml/min more than what you had, which would be 41ml/min.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  15. #40
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    Oh ok I see what i did wrong still learning

    I have two different tests I have Hanna and yesterday
    I bought salyfr because I had the same idea that the hanna
    Wasn't working but they both mark about the same
    I'm going to lower the effluent and wait a 2 days to see if there are any changes

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by snipersps View Post
    Oh ok I see what i did wrong still learning

    I have two different tests I have Hanna and yesterday
    I bought salyfr because I had the same idea that the hanna
    Wasn't working but they both mark about the same
    I'm going to lower the effluent and wait a 2 days to see if there are any changes
    Make sure your effluent exits in an area of high flow. You could be getting precipitation as it exits.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  17. #42
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    Ok guys im back with some bad news
    Three days ago I raised my alkalinity to 9.6
    and today my alkalinity is 8.6 that's in the system
    the alkalinity in the calcio reactor came out to 34
    the alkalinity keeps going down day by day any advise

  18. #43
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    You may need to CO2 scrub so you can continue increasing effluent flow without bringing the system pH too low. Another option is to run some Kalk in your ATO to help bring up system pH.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    You may need to CO2 scrub so you can continue increasing effluent flow without bringing the system pH too low. Another option is to run some Kalk in your ATO to help bring up system pH.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

    ok. I'm going to try to setup my kallwaser reactor and we see from there.
    thanks

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Your code should be

    If pH > 6.30 Then ON
    If pH < 6.30 Then OFF
    If pH > 7.50 Then OFF


    If your target is 6.3 with a 0.03 pH hysteresis and the 7.5 acts as a failsafe.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Zombie,

    Can you re-explain why the "if ph>7.50 then off" is a failsafe? What does this ensure?

    I've used this for a year and for the first time my phcarx skyrocketed up, as the carbondoser wasnt turning on at the prgorammed range. So I initially thought my co2 10lb cannister was empty, but was able to manually turn the co2 on.

    But I just noticed a big drop in my display tank ph below 7.7 (similar to your failsafe),is why the c02 on auto wasnt dosing.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makers Marc View Post
    Zombie,

    Can you re-explain why the "if ph>7.50 then off" is a failsafe? What does this ensure?

    I've used this for a year and for the first time my phcarx skyrocketed up, as the carbondoser wasnt turning on at the prgorammed range. So I initially thought my co2 10lb cannister was empty, but was able to manually turn the co2 on.

    But I just noticed a big drop in my display tank ph below 7.7 (similar to your failsafe),is why the c02 on auto wasnt dosing.
    That particular failsafe turns the doser off if the internal probe is wildly high compared to what the value should be. This usually means that your CO2 canister is completely empty, but can also trigger if your pH probe fails or if the reactor has been OFF for an extended period.

    The tank pH failsafe should be

    If TankPH < 7.8 Then OFF



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