Tunze streams stop when disconnection from Apex

[Clownfishy]

I have used the Neptune Tunze cable to connect my two Tunze 6095 streams to the variable port on the Apex and all works really well. However I tested pulling the aquabus cable out of the Apex so the Apex lost power but the power bar still had mains power. I did this to replicate having an issue with the Apex and fully expected the Streams to carry on working, just not controllable. To my surprise they just stopped dead. Am I doing something wrong or is it not possible to keep the Streams spinning if the Apex is dead.

Here is the code i have on the Streams

Fallback ON
tdata 00:00:00,0,0,33,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
tdata 23:59:00,0,0,33,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
If Time 08:30 to 09:59 Then PulseCalm
If Time 10:00 to 17:29 Then Pulse
If Time 17:30 to 18:59 Then PulseCalm
If FeedA 000 Then OFF

[zombie]

The variable ports do that and that behavior is expected. Fallback does not work on the base unit ports.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

[Clownfishy]

Damn, I kinda hope they would work as one of these streams is connected to a battery backup so that blows up my backup plans. Looks like I either take these off the Apex and put them back on the Tunze controller or buy a separate pump and run that on its own connected to the battery backup :-(
Do you think there are any other options to ensure there is water flow in the event of the Apex dying? By the way I am running sumpless on this tank so there is no return pump to rely on.
Many thanks for your response.

[RussM]

Think about this for a moment - if the Apex base unit has no power, the built-in VarSpd also have no power. No power to the VarSpd circuitry means there there is no control signal being output to the Tunze. The Tunze “sees” 0 volts for the control signal, so it goes to 0%. The fact that the EnergyBar still has power does not have any bearing on this.

Regarding Fallback - as zombie said, there is no Fallback for base Variable outputs, for the reason I gave above. Only expansion modules have any form of Fallback. Fallback for outputs in a base unit itself is impossible to implement.

[zombie]

Damn, I kinda hope they would work as one of these streams is connected to a battery backup so that blows up my backup plans. Looks like I either take these off the Apex and put them back on the Tunze controller or buy a separate pump and run that on its own connected to the battery backup :-(
Do you think there are any other options to ensure there is water flow in the event of the Apex dying? By the way I am running sumpless on this tank so there is no return pump to rely on.
Many thanks for your response.

For the tunze pumps, there is no way for full redundancy without some serious electronics DIY. You can get it 90% there by battery or UPS backup on the head unit, but that doesnt protect against a head unut failure just power loss. What I would do is get a secondary cheap small pump and plug that into the energy bar or wall with it's own controller. Something like a jebao RW-4 set to else mode would fit the bill nicely.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

[Clownfishy]

Just to confirm, before I plugged them into the Apex, they used to run off a Tunze 7095 Multicontroller with one of the streams plugged into a battery via a Tunze Safety connector. When I lost power, the pump on the battery continued. From what you have said, looks like I need to buy a separate pump and run that off a separate Tunze controller to ensure I can continue to provide circulation while on battery.

Think about this for a moment - if the Apex base unit has no power, the built-in VarSpd also have no power. No power to the VarSpd circuitry means there there is no control signal being output to the Tunze. The Tunze “sees” 0 volts for the control signal, so it goes to 0%. The fact that the EnergyBar still has power does not have any bearing on this.

Regarding Fallback - as zombie said, there is no Fallback for base Variable outputs, for the reason I gave above. Only expansion modules have any form of Fallback. Fallback for outputs in a base unit itself is impossible to implement.

[zombie]

Just to confirm, before I plugged them into the Apex, they used to run off a Tunze 7095 Multicontroller with one of the streams plugged into a battery via a Tunze Safety connector. When I lost power, the pump on the battery continued. From what you have said, looks like I need to buy a separate pump and run that off a separate Tunze controller to ensure I can continue to provide circulation while on battery.

That or UPS/battery backup the apex head (doesn't protect against head failure but does for power outage, is required either way if you want to run the Tunze during a power outage and have apex control). Another option is to just move one of the Tunze to its own controller seperate from the apex.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

[Clownfishy]

That or UPS/battery backup the apex head (doesn't protect against head failure but does for power outage, is required either way if you want to run the Tunze during a power outage and have apex control). Another option is to just move one of the Tunze to its own controller seperate from the apex.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

Many thanks, probably go for a separate new Tunze steam with controller running off the 12v battery during a lower outage.

[dizzzy10]

Hi, I am in the same situation as I have just done a similar test.
The setup I have is two tunze pumps connected via safety connectors to battery backups with the apex connected as the external control

The test I have done is switched off the power to the power bar and the Tunze pumps power supplies to simulate a power cut. As you have already said the pumps stopped dead.

When they was connected to the 7096 tunze controller they carried on running on the battery backup.

I understand that without power the apex base unit can't supply the variable speed port with power and as a result the Tunze sees 0v and stops the pump. What I don't understand is why if the Tunze controller can back feed the battery backup power and maintain a voltage to the keep the pumps running why can't the apex.

Would it be possible to maintain the power to the variable speed ports on the base unit by connecting the 12v aux power port on the apex to the 12v battery backup?

Thanks
Matty

[zombie]

Hi, I am in the same situation as I have just done a similar test.
The setup I have is two tunze pumps connected via safety connectors to battery backups with the apex connected as the external control

The test I have done is switched off the power to the power bar and the Tunze pumps power supplies to simulate a power cut. As you have already said the pumps stopped dead.

When they was connected to the 7096 tunze controller they carried on running on the battery backup.

I understand that without power the apex base unit can't supply the variable speed port with power and as a result the Tunze sees 0v and stops the pump. What I don't understand is why if the Tunze controller can back feed the battery backup power and maintain a voltage to the keep the pumps running why can't the apex.

Would it be possible to maintain the power to the variable speed ports on the base unit by connecting the 12v aux power port on the apex to the 12v battery backup?

Thanks
Matty

It's because the safety connector takes over and actually provides the pumps a minimal control voltage.

You can connect the Tunze battery backup to the AUX port of the apex to keep it running. I would advise doing so as that will also give you the ability to alert yourself when an outage occurs (make sure your router/mode is on battery backup or UPS or you will not be alerted). Doing so will reduce the runtime of the battery backup, so if you are worried about that, just use a UPS or 12V battery backup just for the apex.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

[dizzzy10]

Thanks zombie
I will give it a go.