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Thread: High amperage pump

  1. #1
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    High amperage pump

    I'm in the process of setting up a big tank and with that I got a big pump. However when i look at the data sheet on the pump I believe it will draw too much power for the EB8 to handle. Can someone help me out with if my assumption is right as well as how can I get my pump to be controlled by my apex if I cant plug it into the energy bar. I'm just grasping at straws here but maybe a breakout box as some sort of an interrupt....dunno. I'm sure someone runs big pumps on these controllers. Please help.

    thanks
    Adam
    20180414_175025.jpgpump 3.jpg

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    For that large of a pump you need a contactor. You can either get a 24V coil with 20A+ contacts amd feed that from an acc port or a 120VAC coil fed from an energy bar outlet. This is not something I would do yourself if you are not extremely electrical savvy and take some time to look through associated NEC articles so the end result is up to code. Hire an electrician otherwise.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  3. #3
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    The only 120VAC EnergyBar that could possibly handle big pump is an EB4, which has one outlet rated for 12 amps. That pump is labeled as drawing 11.5A at 115VAC/60Hz, so that's really pushing the limit. Instead, use a unit like this to indirectly control power to the pumps... you plug the unit into an EB outlet, then plug your pump into the unit, and plug the unit's power cord into a dedicated 15A circuit. The Apex and EB just control a heavy-duty relay inside the box, which in turn switches the main power to the pump.

    http://www.titancontrols.net/shop/pr...pander-15-amps
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    The only 120VAC EnergyBar that could possibly handle big pump is an EB4, which has one outlet rated for 12 amps. That pump is labeled as drawing 11.5A at 115VAC/60Hz, so that's really pushing the limit. Instead, use a unit like this to indirectly control power to the pumps... you plug the unit into an EB outlet, then plug your pump into the unit, and plug the unit's power cord into a dedicated 15A circuit. The Apex and EB just control a heavy-duty relay inside the box, which in turn switches the main power to the pump.

    http://www.titancontrols.net/shop/pr...pander-15-amps
    A premade unit like that is a good idea and would avoid the electeician, but I would not recommend that 15A version. The make rating of the contacts used in that device is not adequate for the starting current of that pump. In my experience only contractors and 20A+ rated electromechanical relays have the make capability to handle the 50-70A inrush that pump will produce during startup.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    The 24V coil with 20+A seems to be a cheeper idea. But of course I want it to be safe.
    Does this look like what you are talking about zombie?

    https://www.amazon.com/Contactor-LC1...s=24v+coil+25A

    - - - Updated - - -

    Or even just this

    https://www.amazon.com/Eaton-C25ANB1...s=24v+coil+25A

  6. #6
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Both of those have 24VAC coils. So you would not be able to control the contactor using an ACC port, which outputs DC.

    You could use a 115->24VAC transformer with those, plugged into a EB outlet
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    At that point I think I would be better off doing something like what you suggested at first. But is there one out there that is rated at 20A like what Zombie suggests...maybe a different brand.

  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    If you can't find a premade one, something like this is the easiest to make code compliant. You just need a NEMA enclosure, an extension cord, a neptune 24V acc cable, and a 20A duplex outlet to plug the pump into. Code requires that the cover be screed in or locked, have strain relief on the extension cord, plus some other caveats I haven't really looked into since my NEC is at work. This type of device would just connect with wire nuts.

    https://blackhawksupply.com/products...=7387645214742

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  9. #9
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    LOL...I was just looking at this on amazon.

  10. #10
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    Pump wire diagram.jpgRIB2401B.jpg
    I know my drawing isn't very good but the wire colors are correct. Can you (Zombie) or anyone else make sure I have this wired right.
    Blue/white & Yellow/white go to the apex 24v wire
    Bule & Blue/Black are both capped offAny help is appreciated.

    thanks

  11. #11
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Not quite. It needs to be like this to be up to code.



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  12. #12
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    I forgot to note in the drawing, the backplate of the enclosure and the case of the contactor need to tie to the bare ground conductor as well.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  13. #13
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    Thanks Zombie. I guess I had a few things wrong. Also I didn't understand the extension cord before but I see the whole unit stands alone now really.

  14. #14
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Yep it should be a self contained box with visible disconnects on both sides and proper grounding throughout.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  15. #15
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    OK I'm not very good at the programing part of apex yet. Ive got my outlet/relay put together. Now to set it up in apex. I think the way to go about this is a virtual outlet that tells whatever 24v outlet to turn on/off. So I intend to plug it into my EB832. My guess is that I need to program my VO to tell a specific 24v outlet to turn on or off. How do I find out what each outlet is called? Also what would that programing look like. I currently have a VO set up with standard return pump programing but I assume that programing needs to be proceeded by the outlet name somehow. Chances are I'm completely wrong about how to do this. please help.

    thanks
    Adam

  16. #16
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The outlet should have LinkA in the name by default. The programming goes there.

    I would start with this and modify as needed. I don't know enough about your system to reccomend anything else. This assumes FeedA is normal feeding and FeedD is maintenance.

    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If FeedA 000 Then OFF
    If FeedD 000 Then OFF

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  17. #17
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    Final product!!
    The enclosure of the relay was a little too big to fit inside the box I got so I just mounted what was inside of the relay box inside of my box. It would have just been a plastic box inside a plastic box anyway. But I mounted it with the LED pocking out of the side of the box so I still see the indicator that the switch is on. Let me know what you think. Hope this thread can help out someone else too. I cant believe no one else has had this issue...or at least posted about it.
    20180428_165310.jpg20180428_165321.jpg20180428_165209.jpg

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