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Thread: Slider changing from AUTO to OFF on its own

  1. #1
    Frequent Contributor SuncrestReef's Avatar
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    Slider changing from AUTO to OFF on its own

    I have a new Apex 2016 and have been controlling it through Apex Fusion for several weeks with no problems. This morning when I woke up, I saw that my sump water level was low, so I checked Fusion and saw that my ATK pump slider was set to "OFF" rather than "AUTO". I checked the Fusion logs and saw that the ATK pump last turned on & off just after midnight, but hadn't run since. I went to bed last night before 10pm (I know, going to bed before 10pm on a Saturday night...Man am I getting old...) and know the setting was set to Auto (and the log proves that since the ATK pump came on a couple times to top it off after I went to bed), but had not run since. I thought that was odd, but set it back to Auto around 9:00am this morning and it refilled the sump. Later around 2:00pm, I checked on it again and saw it was again set to "OFF".

    I have not granted anyone else to have access to my Apex through Fusion, so I doubt anyone else is messing with it. What could possibly be changing the slider from the Auto position to the Off position? I have logging enabled on the ATK pump outlet, but it only logs when the pump is turned on or turned off. It does not log when the setting is changed from Auto to Off.

    This really concerns me because everything had been running perfectly for weeks. But now I'm starting to question the reliability of the Apex if settings are being changed at random.

    All firmware is up to date on all my modules. What else could possibly cause this?

  2. #2
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Nothing is changing the sliders at random. Your ATO output was switched to manual OFF because it ran too long, and shut itself off as a safety measure. In your ATK programming, there is a 'When' statement; like this: When On > 005:00 Then OFF

    If you used the ATK Task in APEX Fusion and have not edited the programming manually, the value used is 5 minutes. If your ATO runs than the duration specified in the When statement, it generally means that something is wrong, and the output will be shut OFF and the slider put into the manual OFF position.

    You should have an If Error statement in your email alarm output program so you get alerted if this happens. More info about When and If Error may be found in this sticky: https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...-Firmware-4-52.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  3. #3
    Frequent Contributor SuncrestReef's Avatar
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    Russ,

    Thanks for that explanation. I guess I misunderstood the way it handles turning off via programming commands vs. manually turning a slider off. I thought that if a slider is set to Auto it will always remain on Auto and the programming will turn an outlet on or off based on the programming logic. I'll read up on the When statement details to be sure I understand it accurately.

    Thanks for your rapid response. These forums are great.

  4. #4
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    You are correct that when in auto, the apex turn an outlet on and off based on the code, it does not turn the slider on or off. The exception is the when command. It is a failsafe.

    for example, if your ATO normally takes 3 minutes to top off, but a float fails and doesn't shut it off so it continues to run. Rather than letting the top off overflow a sump, or drop the salinity excessively, the when command is used to override the auto and turn the slider either on or off. It needs to be manually reset. But since something unexpected happened, an if error statement should be in your email alarm so you know what happened.

  5. #5
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    I’m also having the same problem. How do I remedy the situation? I try to manually run the ATK by switching the slider to on and all I get is an audible clicking from the FMM


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waipahugrad99 View Post
    I’m also having the same problem. How do I remedy the situation? I try to manually run the ATK by switching the slider to on and all I get is an audible clicking from the FMM


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That means your PMUP is stalling. Check for clogs in the tubing and clean it. If the problem continues after cleaning and clog checking, contact support.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    That means your PMUP is stalling. Check for clogs in the tubing and clean it. If the problem continues after cleaning and clog checking, contact support.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Dam I was hopeful that you had the answer. I disconnected the orange tube and ran the pump. Still only the clicking from the FMM.


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  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waipahugrad99 View Post
    Dam I was hopeful that you had the answer. I disconnected the orange tube and ran the pump. Still only the clicking from the FMM.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Clean the pmup too.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  9. #9
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    Yup no bueno,


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  10. #10
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    I'm not sure if I should start a new thread for this exact issue I'm having. So if I understand correctly its turning off by itself if it reaches 5 minutes of filling my sump ?

    I'm sure others can't have this happen due to change in salinity and risk of a return pump running dry.


    Also the Neptune pump is brand new so I can't see something failing on it this soon.

  11. #11
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    It depends on your code. If the When command is true it moves the slider. The wizard configuration puts a 5 minutes time in the when command by default

  12. #12
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    Is there something I can show you ? I understand if it runs for a set amount of time but its put on an off position never to turn back on again.

  13. #13
    Frequent Contributor SuncrestReef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubzy View Post
    I'm not sure if I should start a new thread for this exact issue I'm having. So if I understand correctly its turning off by itself if it reaches 5 minutes of filling my sump ?

    I'm sure others can't have this happen due to change in salinity and risk of a return pump running dry.


    Also the Neptune pump is brand new so I can't see something failing on it this soon.
    In my case I discovered the root cause of the problem. I have automatic water changes that runs every day from 9am - noon. During this time, I have my ATK disabled based on time of day, so it doesn't try to refill the sump with fresh water while the salt water is being drained. What caused the problem was that the tubing that runs from my salt water storage tank had come loose from its holder and had floated up to the surface, so it was just sucking air instead of refilling the sump. So once the ATK kicked back in after 12:00 noon, the water level was so low that the ATK kept filling and filling with fresh water, so once it ran for 5 minutes the WHEN statement kicked in and shut off the ATK slider. Under normal circumstances my ATK should only need to run for 10 - 30 seconds.

  14. #14
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubzy View Post
    I'm not sure if I should start a new thread for this exact issue I'm having. So if I understand correctly its turning off by itself if it reaches 5 minutes of filling my sump ?

    I'm sure others can't have this happen due to change in salinity and risk of a return pump running dry.


    Also the Neptune pump is brand new so I can't see something failing on it this soon.
    That is correct. It will set to manual OFF and throw an error if it runs longer than the when statement length.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  15. #15
    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    If you're throwing When On statement errors that are shutting down your ATK which is otherwise apparently running normally, try either decreasing the time of the Min Time statement (so your ATK can run more often), or increasing the time of the When On statement (so your ATK can run longer each time without shutting down.) Or both.

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    Hello ... from your post, it sounds like you are able to log when your ATO pump actually activates? .. If correct, would you be willing to share how you did that ...thanks

  17. #17
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perjonas View Post
    Hello ... from your post, it sounds like you are able to log when your ATO pump actually activates? .. If correct, would you be willing to share how you did that ...thanks
    Check the enable logging checkbox in the outlet setup for that outlet.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  18. #18
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    My ATK was working fine and now I'm having a similar problem in that its just turning itself OFF. It seems to work for a while and then turn itself OFF.

    This is the programming, I didn't write it, so could some kind soul explain it and where it might be causing the ATK to turn off.

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If ATK-Lo OPEN Then ON
    If ATK-Hi CLOSED Then OFF
    When On > 005:00 Then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:04 Then OFF
    Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

  19. #19
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If ATK-Lo OPEN Then ON
    If ATK-Hi CLOSED Then OFF
    When On > 005:00 Then OFF / sets pump to manual OFF if it runs this amount of time or longer
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:04 Then OFF
    Min Time 060:00 Then OFF / must be OFF for 60 minutes since the last fill before running again


    Make sure your tubing is clear and not jammed too far in (it can flare and block flow if you jam it too far in) and make sure your float is set correctly.



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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