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Thread: Chiller/Sump in basement - Pump Size Required

  1. #1
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    Chiller/Sump in basement - Pump Size Required

    On my new 120 build, I plan on putting the chiller in the basement. Display and sump will remain on the main floor.
    Distance from sump to chiller no more than 4ft vertical, 2ft horizontal.
    I plan on having the circulation pump next to the chiller. It will be plumbed with ˝" pvc tubing from the sump to pump inlet,
    pump to chiller, then back to sump. There will be a ˝" flow meter inline on the return to both monitor flow and in case of any issues.
    Now baring any frictional losses from fittings, am I correct in assuming that since this basically is a closed loop, that I wouldn't
    need as big of a pump since the water flowing to the pump is gravity feed. The head pressure would get offset to a degree.

    I need to push about 300-400 gph thru the chiller.

    Chiller.png

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    I had to make some assumptions on equivalency since the calculator I use doesn't have a 1/2" option, so I doubled the length and multiplied the fitting minor head loss by 1.5 to get a rough ballpark using 3/4". It looks like the pump you will need with the valve fully open would be a mag7 or equivalent head and flowrate pump (700gph with 12' max head), which will net about 400gph fully open. You could size up to a mag9 or equivalent to get more play room and throttle it down with a gate or ball valve.

    Please let me know what pump you get and what the resultant flowrate is when installed and valve fully open for my own information to verify the accuracy of my assumptions in case a similar question comes up again.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    How are you planning to prime that pump?

    You’ll need a valve in the purple piping near the pump intake so you can isolate and remove the pump if needed. A valve low in the blue piping would be good too.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    How are you planning to prime that pump?

    You’ll need a valve in the purple piping near the pump intake so you can isolate and remove the pump if needed. A valve low in the blue piping would be good too.
    That's a good point. If space allows I would just put the pump in the sump at the start of the purple line and install a tee with a valve and disconnects at the bottom by the chiller to drain it. The overall size will not be affected by where the pump is placed.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Russ,
    It's just a basic diagram to get the idea. There will be true union ball valves at the pump inlet and chiller outlet.
    No need for one between the pump and chiller.
    Priming is easy, once all plumbed, insert a 3/8" vinyl airline tube into the end of the return line, (which would also be under the water line in the sump)
    then use a hand operated vacuum pump. I did this when I ran a closed loop years ago with both suction and return lines over the top edge of the tank.
    Works great. And with the ball valve at the pump inlet, and as long as the inlet line stays under the water surface, you can service the pump/chiller without
    having to restart the siphon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    SNIP--->

    Please let me know what pump you get and what the resultant flowrate is when installed and valve fully open for my own information to verify the accuracy of my assumptions in case a similar question comes up again.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Thanks for the useful information.
    As to a pump, I have a few Panworld pumps laying around. I think one is a 50PX which is 590 gph with a 16' head max.
    The pump will only be about 4 feet below the sump, so I'll give this a try. Worst case, I'll use one of the 100's I have.

    But a question, since the pump is gravity fed (below the water line), doesn't that help offset some of the head loss?
    I would think weight of the column of water in the suction line would offset the weight of the water in the return line.
    Trust me, I have some basic understanding (toolmaker by trade = anal know it all), but stuff like this I leave up to the
    experts!

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Member No 1 View Post
    Thanks for the useful information.
    As to a pump, I have a few Panworld pumps laying around. I think one is a 50PX which is 590 gph with a 16' head max.
    The pump will only be about 4 feet below the sump, so I'll give this a try. Worst case, I'll use one of the 100's I have.

    But a question, since the pump is gravity fed (below the water line), doesn't that help offset some of the head loss?
    I would think weight of the column of water in the suction line would offset the weight of the water in the return line.
    Trust me, I have some basic understanding (toolmaker by trade = anal know it all), but stuff like this I leave up to the
    experts!
    That pump should do fine because the higher max head will offset a lot of the difference in flowrate between that and the one I suggested.

    The gravity fed aspect does make a huge difference (you would have needed like a 1000 gph with 18' head if you were pumping from a basement sump) because it cancels out all of the head loss from height, but the friction loss from all of the tubing and minor losses from the fittings is still quite substantial because of the small tubing size and large number of bends and fittings.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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    Gotcha! Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    How are you planning to prime that pump?

    You’ll need a valve in the purple piping near the pump intake so you can isolate and remove the pump if needed. A valve low in the blue piping would be good too.
    Russ, priming was easy. Once plumbed, and before I connected the return side going to the tank to the ball valve on the chiller output, a little suction (old school, gasoline style), once I saw water flowing down the inlet side, I closed the ball valve.
    Hooked up the return side going to tank, open the ball valve, turned it on, pumped like a champ. See pics below.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    SNIP--->

    Please let me know what pump you get and what the resultant flowrate is when installed and valve fully open for my own information to verify the accuracy of my assumptions in case a similar question comes up again.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    Zombie, per your request:
    The original diagram was only an approximate representation of the final assembly, so here is what I used.
    1/2" PVC about 80-90" total length of all pieces
    (5) 90* 1/2" elbows
    (2) 3/4-1/2" reducing bushings - slip fit
    (1) 3/4" True union ball valve
    (1) 3/4" Union
    (1) 1/2" Apex Flow Meter
    3/4" ID Tygon tubing about 72" total length (2 pieces) - Slips over 1/2" pvc, no barb fittings used
    (1) 3/4" Ball Valve - Two Little Fishies brand
    Blueline 20 Pump 3/4" ID/OD
    JBJ DBA-150 1/5hp Chiller

    Flow rate is running 235-237 gph

    Pics of plumping:
    (Not shown are (2) "U" pipes that go over the back of the sump and connect to the Tygon tubing to the chiller)


    Blue Line 20.JPG

    Chill 2.png
    Chill 3.png

    Chill 1.png

    Chill 4.png

  10. #10
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    Since you can only attach 5 files, here is the ball valve.

    TLF Ball Valve.jpg

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