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Thread: Turning off if high pH

  1. #1
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    Turning off if high pH

    If I plug my DOS's power supply into a normal power socket and not my EB6 and I have this command in the advanced section of the Doser, will the DOS ignore any dosing it is programmed to do until pH is lower than 8.4 or does OFF mean turn the power socket off?

    If pH > 8.40 Then OFF

    Also, if the Apex 2016 loses power, will the DOS still dose its schedule or is it a dumb device and stop working until the Apex is back online?

    Many thanks

  2. #2
    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    Yes, that command will have the DOS skip any doses that would normally occur, if the pH is over 8.4. Here's what mine looks like:

    Fallback OFF
    tdata 00:05:00,1,21,0,7,3,192,88,0,11,6,24,16,0
    If pH > 8.40 Then OFF
    If FeedA 000 Then OFF
    If FeedB 000 Then OFF
    If FeedC 000 Then OFF
    If FeedD 000 Then OFF
    If Output ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF
    If Output PowerOut5Min = ON Then OFF
    If Output LeakDetected = ON Then OFF


    Of course if the Apex loses power, in most cases the DOS will also lose power. But if your setup is different, I believe (but have not personally confirmed) that the DOS does require an Aquabus connection to a functioning controller and does not internally store any programming.

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    OK, that is good to know there is little point in using a socket on my EB6 for the DOS and that is will stop it dosing if the pH is too high. Bit of a worry that if the Apex was to fail, all my dosing just stops. I have another doser dosing kalkwasser and was going to replace that as well but on hearing this, I definitely won't be buying a DOS for that. At least if the Apex fails and it takes out my alk and calcium dosing, I have a seperate doser dosing kalkwasser which although would not maintain the levels, but would at least be adding something to the tank.

    I wonder if Neptune are going to work on clustering Apex controllers to prevent this single point of failure.

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    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    Having programming integrated into the DOS would be fantastic for sure.

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    For the price they charge for the DOS, I am a little surprised it doesn't have this functionality!

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    Hi, I'm new to the hobby and obviously to the Apex system. I was watching some youtube videos about dosing Ca and Alk a few people said that you should not dos them at the same time but have one dose on the hour and the other on the half hour otherwise they can literally cancel themselves out. I don't know if that is true but if so would you know how I could program the DOS to do that? I would sincerely appreciate any help you could give me.

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    That's interesting, I didn't realise this, do you have the link to the video? I dose very small amounts 4ml 10 minuted apart for a couple of hours and it seems to be maintaining my alk and calcium fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsmemmott View Post
    Hi, I'm new to the hobby and obviously to the Apex system. I was watching some youtube videos about dosing Ca and Alk a few people said that you should not dos them at the same time but have one dose on the hour and the other on the half hour otherwise they can literally cancel themselves out. I don't know if that is true but if so would you know how I could program the DOS to do that? I would sincerely appreciate any help you could give me.
    That applies to large doses in the same location in an area that doesn't have high flow. The precipitation is minimal otherwise.

    The best and easiest way to offset them is to just let the wizard do its thing. If they are not exactly the same dose, the algorithm is designed in such a way as to spread them out while maintaining very small doses that are a drop or two at a time. In the unlikely event the two send a couple drops at the same instant, the precipitation will be minimal. If you are gung ho about making sure every dose is spaced far apart, the only way is to use dose profiles and OSC statements, which adds unnecessary complexity IMO.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Thank you for your input

    - - - Updated - - -

    What does this line in your programming do?
    tdata 00:05:00,1,21,0,7,3,192,88,0,11,6,24,16,0

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsmemmott View Post
    Thank you for your input

    - - - Updated - - -

    What does this line in your programming do?
    tdata 00:05:00,1,21,0,7,3,192,88,0,11,6,24,16,0
    That is a line generated by the graphical wizard.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Thank you

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    So I heard this mentioned in a recent Neptune Systems live stream where it was recommended to plug the DOS power into an energy bar if dosing something like Kalk.

    Can I get some more information on the risk here?

    My DOS programming has a line for stopping if the PH gets too high although the DOS is actually in my garage on a different circuit breaker and there is no energy bar in there. I can buy an energy bar just for the garage and add an IF ph statement for that outlet, just wanted for information on the potential risk if I don't invest in another energy bar for this purpose.

    Has someone's DOS malfunctioned in the on position where the power had to be removed to stop it? If so was this a one in a million type failure?

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    Bump

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    You guys at neptune said this in your live stream with 5 seconds explanation. Can I get a little help here?

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    So I hunted around and found the episode was jan 26 and the topic is at around 59:40 into the video

    https://youtu.be/Yn819qey4sU

    I was mistaken when I said 5 seconds as they did talk for several minutes about it.


    Sounds like the main protection is for:
    1)Dos fails stuck on
    2)Some switches the outlet to on and the 250 ml it does before stopping is too much for your tank.

    Paul also mentions to set the outlet to always on. Should the programing start with set off in case the power to the apex brains in another room gets powered off? Not sure how that would look.
    Your Message

  16. #16
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfoxgrover View Post

    Paul also mentions to set the outlet to always on. Should the programing start with set off in case the power to the apex brains in another room gets powered off? Not sure how that would look.
    No, you would not use Set OFF - that would set the default state of the outlet providing power to the DŌS to be OFF; the DŌS should have continuous power. Paraphrased, what Paul said is that you should have the outlet be always ON (meaning normally ON), and also use a If pH statement to shut OFF the outlet if the pH is too high.

    The correct way to do this would be:

    Fallback OFF
    Set ON
    If pH > #.# Then OFF

    I must emphasize that this programming goes in the outlet into which the DŌS power supply is plugged in.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    Thanks Russ, fallback is where I got confused, forgot about that.

    I have an eb4 on the way for the added protection. Failsafes are almost always a good investment when it comes to aquariums.

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    @RussM - Where would you add it to outlet if using 1Link?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveben007 View Post
    @RussM - Where would you add it to outlet if using 1Link?
    A 1LINK connection is always on - so you can’t do it.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    So whats the harm in having this code directly in the DOS/ALK portion I previously had If Alk > xx then OFF and seemed to work without any issues.

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    I recommend that you watch the video at the time I referenced in the link a few posts above. Paraphrasing the recommendation, do not use the one link, and plug the DOS into a regular apex power outlet in case there was a rare occurrence rate malfunction that potentially leaves the DOS powered and running long enough to overdose a high ph solution like Kalk or soda ash or other hydroxides.

    I had to buy an eb4 to do this since my DOSs are in my garage where I don't have to hear them but I figure if its cheap insurance against a tank crash, I can do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pfoxgrover View Post
    I recommend that you watch the video at the time I referenced in the link a few posts above. Paraphrasing the recommendation, do not use the one link, and plug the DOS into a regular apex power outlet in case there was a rare occurrence rate malfunction that potentially leaves the DOS powered and running long enough to overdose a high ph solution like Kalk or soda ash or other hydroxides.

    I had to buy an eb4 to do this since my DOSs are in my garage where I don't have to hear them but I figure if its cheap insurance against a tank crash, I can do it.

    Makes sense and I may do this but I am curious as to any harm on having this code with the 1link as I mentioned I tested it and it would shut it off without any issues so I am curious as to why not have this code in there if indeed it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    No, you would not use Set OFF - that would set the default state of the outlet providing power to the DŌS to be OFF; the DŌS should have continuous power. Paraphrased, what Paul said is that you should have the outlet be always ON (meaning normally ON), and also use a If pH statement to shut OFF the outlet if the pH is too high.

    The correct way to do this would be:

    Fallback OFF
    Set ON
    If pH > #.# Then OFF

    I must emphasize that this programming goes in the outlet into which the DŌS power supply is plugged in.
    Hi Russ. Reviving this aging thread and hoping you can answer a question for me. You said above that this programming goes on the outlet, not on the DOS programming. What if I wanted something like "If ph > #.# Then OFF" to only apply to the left or the right pump? What I'm trying to do is DOS in a pH increase slowly until the pH reaches the target, then shut off that one side of the DOS until there is a reason for it to start dosing again (pH too low). How would I accomplish that? I thought I knew the answer until I saw your code and statement that it belongs in the outlet.

    Thanks!

  24. #24
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Turning off if high pH

    Quote Originally Posted by reefdiver View Post
    Hi Russ. Reviving this aging thread and hoping you can answer a question for me. You said above that this programming goes on the outlet, not on the DOS programming. What if I wanted something like "If ph > #.# Then OFF" to only apply to the left or the right pump? What I'm trying to do is DOS in a pH increase slowly until the pH reaches the target, then shut off that one side of the DOS until there is a reason for it to start dosing again (pH too low). How would I accomplish that? I thought I knew the answer until I saw your code and statement that it belongs in the outlet.Thanks!
    You are asking about a different scenario. In the context of the question asked in post #15, the If pH > ## Then OFF statement needs to go in the program for the outlet supplying power to the DŌS. This is a safety measure in case the slider for the pump dosing alkalinity supplement or kalkwasser is accidentally turn to the manual ON position. If pH > ## Then OFF statement when used in the programing for the pump itself will not work in that particular case because a slider being in manual ON (or OFF) is an manual override and programming is not being executed. Programming is only executed when a slider is in AUTO.

    In your scenario though, you want a high pH cutoff to be operational when the pump output's slider is in AUTO, so you can use the If pH > ## Then OFF statement in the pump head's program. You can use both techniques.

    For safety if you accidentally put the slider in the ON position, use If pH > ## Then OFF statement in the EB outlet for the DŌS power supply. Then add If pH > ## Then OFF at the end of the DŌS Alk pump program.

    Examples:

    [DOS_POWER]
    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If pH > 8.3 Then OFF

    [DOS_ALK]
    {the tadata programming generated by the DŌS wizard}
    If pH > 8.2 Then OFF


    The pH value used in the DŌS power outlet must be higher than the value used in the alk/kalk programming.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    [DOS_ALK]
    {the tadata programming generated by the DŌS wizard}
    If pH > 8.2 Then OFF
    Thank you very much for helping me understand that. It makes perfect sense.
    I have not been able to find the data generated by any of the wizards. Can you tell me where that is hiding?

    Thanks!

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