Help me understand the When command

[EricB]

This is my code for a virtual outlet

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Sw3 CLOSED Then ON
When Off > 001:00 Then OFF

Switch 3 opens when my ATO reservoir is low and needs to be refilled. The outlet moved from Auto to Off as expected. I add water and switch 3 closes. Now if I change the outlet to Auto is will automatically move back to Off. I can get the Outlet back on again by manually moving it to On and then to Auto. Is this expected to have to move the outlet to On before going back to Auto?

P.S. I added the 1 minute timeout to the When command thinking it would help but it did not.

[SuncrestReef]

This is my code for a virtual outlet

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Sw3 CLOSED Then ON
When Off > 001:00 Then OFF

Switch 3 opens when my ATO reservoir is low and needs to be refilled. The outlet moved from Auto to Off as expected. I add water and switch 3 closes. Now if I change the outlet to Auto is will automatically move back to Off. I can get the Outlet back on again by manually moving it to On and then to Auto. Is this expected to have to move the outlet to On before going back to Auto?

P.S. I added the 1 minute timeout to the When command thinking it would help but it did not.

The WHEN command is a failsafe to permanently turn off an outlet due to an error or abnormal situation. Normally you would leave the outlet set to AUTO and then let your programming code turn on or off the outlet based on the conditions you programmed for. But the WHEN command should only be used for situations that could cause serious trouble if the programming continued without manual intervention. The best example is if your ATO pump runs longer than it normally takes to refill your sump. This could be because the optical or float switch failed to turn off the pump, and it then continues to flood your house. The WHEN command basically means if it runs longer than X:XX, then change the outlet from Auto to OFF and leave it that way until you have a chance to investigate what went wrong.

RussM did a nice write up of the WHEN command in this post: https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...-Firmware-4-52

[EricB]

The WHEN command is a failsafe to permanently turn off an outlet due to an error or abnormal situation. Normally you would leave the outlet set to AUTO and then let your programming code turn on or off the outlet based on the conditions you programmed for. But the WHEN command should only be used for situations that could cause serious trouble if the programming continued without manual intervention. The best example is if your ATO pump runs longer than it normally takes to refill your sump. This could be because the optical or float switch failed to turn off the pump, and it then continues to flood your house. The WHEN command basically means if it runs longer than X:XX, then change the outlet from Auto to OFF and leave it that way until you have a chance to investigate what went wrong.

RussM did a nice write up of the WHEN command in this post: https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...-Firmware-4-52

The failsafe part is working as I would expect. I want the outlet to go to OFF when to be sure my pump does not run dry. The problem happens when I try to reset the outlet, I have to move it from Off to On then to Auto. If I move it from Off to Auto it will go back to Off. Also this is not Auto-Off it is manual Off. Is this a bug? Shouldn't it run the auto program and bet set to Auto-On at this point?

[zombie]

You're throwing it into an infinite loop. You are telling it to turn off when the switch opens and then 1 minute after it turns off to latch into manual off.

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[SuncrestReef]

I'm guessing the problem is that your code says:

When OFF > 001:00 Then OFF

It should be:

When ON > 001:00 Then OFF

In other words, if the pump is running (On) for more than 1 minute, then turn the slider to Manual Off.

[EricB]

You're throwing it into an infinite loop. You are telling it to turn off when the switch opens and then 1 minute after it turns off to latch into manual off.

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I think I am explaining this wrong. I want it to turn off when the switch is opened for 1 minute. The problem is when I close the switch and then change it to Auto. The outlet turns back off again. I believe it should turn on as the switch is now closed. How am I in a loop when the switch is closed?

[EricB]

I'm guessing the problem is that your code says:

When OFF > 001:00 Then OFF

It should be:

When ON > 001:00 Then OFF

In other words, if the pump is running (On) for more than 1 minute, then turn the slider to Manual Off.

That is not the behavior I want. I want this outlet to be off until I turn it back on whenever it turns off.

[zombie]

That is not the behavior I want. I want this outlet to be off until I turn it back on whenever it turns off.

He's actually 99% right. The only difference is what he provided runs the pump for exactly 1 minute, not 1 minute after the switch opens.

Your original code turns it off immediately when the switch opens and then latches OFF in an infinite loop.

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[EricB]

He's actually 99% right. The only difference is what he provided runs the pump for exactly 1 minute, not 1 minute after the switch opens.

Your original code turns it off immediately when the switch opens and then latches OFF in an infinite loop.

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I am missing something with this infinite loop

This is how I see the code working

Fallback OFF	False
Set OFF	True
If Sw3 CLOSED Then ON	True
When Off > 001:00 Then OFF	False

I believe the code is executed every second so that would be 60 executions before the When line is true.

I also do not understand why I do not enter the infinite loop when the outlet is manually on and moved to Auto.

BTW: I do not want my pump to run dry at all. I have placed this switch so it opens before the water level is low enough for the pump to run dry.

[zombie]

When the outlet has been in manual OFF or OFF for more than 1 minute, the when line is true which puts it right back in manual off.

This is what is actually happening

Turn to manual ON resets when timer so it is no longer true

Set to AUTO allows it to turn on when the switch is closed

The moment the switch opens, the outlet turns off.

Exactly 1 minute later the when statement is true again, which sets the outlet to manual OFF. This statement remains true until the outlet goes into the ON state.

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[EricB]

When the outlet has been in manual OFF or OFF for more than 1 minute

Ok now I see. Because manual on/off overrides the auto I did not think manual conditions were included in the duration calculation. This explains the behavior exactly and I was able to test with another virtual outlet to confirm. Thank you for putting up with all of my questions.

[Todd]

Ok now I see. Because manual on/off overrides the auto I did not think manual conditions were included in the duration calculation. This explains the behavior exactly and I was able to test with another virtual outlet to confirm. Thank you for putting up with all of my questions.

Actually, the When command is executed first. Like Defer and Min Time, the When command does not rely on placement order. So a manual ON is needed to reset the register.