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Thread: Solenoid and gravity fed drain line

  1. #1
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    Solenoid and gravity fed drain line

    Can the Neptune Solenoid be used to open a gravity fed drain line from a skimmer cup? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the solenoid needs 3 psi, and I have no idea if a 3/8" line from the skimmer cup would get to 3 psi or not.

    My skimmer can not use a separate waste container because it never would shut off due to the design of the skimmer (the recirculating air for the venture valve).

    Today I have a drain line hooked up and manually open it when the cup needs to be emptied but I travel a lot and would like to be able to drain it automatically using the Apex.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    No, that will not work. The solenoid needs some pressure / it’s not meant for gravity-fed use - it will just be a tiny trickle. And it would probably get gunked up quickly with skimmate.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  3. #3
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    Thanks, Russ. I didn't think so but I wanted to be sure.

    I think I'm going to try this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/112270151694 and just plug it into an EB8 or EB832.

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyCT View Post
    Thanks, Russ. I didn't think so but I wanted to be sure.

    I think I'm going to try this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/112270151694 and just plug it into an EB8 or EB832.
    Bad idea. That one has exposed 120V terminals. The use of that violates National Electric Code and is a good way to start a fire in your house and have insurance deny your claim. Get one that has a NEMA rated enclosure to the terminals or uses 24V instead of 120V.

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  5. #5
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    I had assume I could attach wires and plug to is and cover with electrical tape. Can you guide me to a better suggestion? I had found other items, like 24V but then I needed to figure out how to provide the right amount of power. I also couldn't find any that were suitable for a drain that came in a full enclosure or with an adapter or plug. I'm really good at following directions, but don't know enough to design this myself, I guess. Can you make a recommendation for me?

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    You can either get a 24V power supply or use this cable to power from an acc port on an EB832 or 1link.

    https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/dc24-...RoCG1YQAvD_BwE

    Use fully insulated spade terminals to connect the cable to the solenoid.

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  7. #7
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    I never even thought of that wire. I put it in my card at BRS. Is this the solenoid I need? https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Hose-Ba...UAAMXQjwVQ95dP

    There's another one but I assume this one is AC rather than DC (https://www.ebay.com/itm/11227008165...MakeTrack=true) I assume the price is a typo.

    Thanks for all your help, as always.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyCT View Post
    I never even thought of that wire. I put it in my card at BRS. Is this the solenoid I need? https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Hose-Ba...UAAMXQjwVQ95dP

    There's another one but I assume this one is AC rather than DC (https://www.ebay.com/itm/11227008165...MakeTrack=true) I assume the price is a typo.

    Thanks for all your help, as always.
    The first one should work. Never assume price is a typo on Ebay. Lots of sellers put things up for astronomical prices for no apparent reason. Probably hoping somebody will accidentally click buy.

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  9. #9
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    I have tried that DC powered valve for a gravity feed system, and it did not work (about 2 feet of water head pressure). I have tried a few different solenoid valves that claimed to work, but none of them did.

    I think the only valve that would work is a direct acting ball valve. I have yet to try one but it should do the job.


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  10. #10
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    dan3949 - Thanks for the heads up. Do you have any suggestions for a direct acting ball valve? Sorry to be ignorant but I'm not sure what that is. I use a ball valve now that I control manually. I have a 3/8" tube connected to it that goes through the stand and the floor to a waste drain pipe I had installed in the basement when I set the tank up years ago. Probably flows 4-5 ft horizontally then maybe a drop of 6 ft or so. The ball valve works great but I have to get someone to go to the house every couple days to drain it for me when I'm traveling; hence my search for a solenoid valve that I can set up to open for a few minutes every day or every couple of days. I don't want to leave the valve open all the time in case the skimmer goes crazy for some reason (which it does occasionally) and starts dumping too much salt water.

    For $10 bucks I may just try it anyway if I can't find another alternative.

    Mickey

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyCT View Post
    dan3949 - Thanks for the heads up. Do you have any suggestions for a direct acting ball valve? Sorry to be ignorant but I'm not sure what that is. I use a ball valve now that I control manually. I have a 3/8" tube connected to it that goes through the stand and the floor to a waste drain pipe I had installed in the basement when I set the tank up years ago. Probably flows 4-5 ft horizontally then maybe a drop of 6 ft or so. The ball valve works great but I have to get someone to go to the house every couple days to drain it for me when I'm traveling; hence my search for a solenoid valve that I can set up to open for a few minutes every day or every couple of days. I don't want to leave the valve open all the time in case the skimmer goes crazy for some reason (which it does occasionally) and starts dumping too much salt water.

    For $10 bucks I may just try it anyway if I can't find another alternative.

    Mickey
    This is an electrically operated ball valve. They aren't cheap. It's essentially a ball valve with a motor on it so it can be turned electrically instead of mechanically.

    https://www.ebay.com/i/273334056395?...0258befffc6318

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    They are definitely more expensive than a solenoid. The one I am tempted to try is around $35 on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...2LEKCK8G&psc=1). I just have too many other projects going on now (primarily moving 3 aquariums from Reef Keeper to Apex) before I get around to adding an automated cutoff for a gravity fed continuous water change on a 129 gallon discus tank.

  13. #13
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    Thanks all. Definitely a too expensive option. I'll let you know if I end up finding a workable solution.

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    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan3949 View Post
    They are definitely more expensive than a solenoid. The one I am tempted to try is around $35 on Amazon .... discus tank.
    Will brass present a problem in a Discus tank or would that only be used for the drain? It has been awhile since I dealt with Discus, but I remember them being pretty delicate/sensitive.

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    I am not sure if brass could be an issue. However, there is a 1/2" stainless steel version for about the same price (https://ussolid.com/motorized-ball-v...u-s-solid.html) which would likely be a better choice than brass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan3949 View Post
    I am not sure if brass could be an issue. However, there is a 1/2" stainless steel version for about the same price (https://ussolid.com/motorized-ball-v...u-s-solid.html) which would likely be a better choice than brass.
    For freshwater, stainless should be fine, but for skimmate or saltwater, both options will just corrode.

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    Excellent point. The stainless should work for the freshwater application I am interested in. But not a good option for a skimmate drain.

    A solution that I have successfully used for extended trips is just run a line/tube (with no valve) from the skimmate cup to gravity drain to a large container. This container (I used a 1 liter plastic jar) provides a large volume to collect skimmate for an extended time. I also installed an inexpensive float valve to the lid of the container that would shut off the skimmer pump if the container became filled with skimmate. This setup has worked for me for several years on many 2+ week vacations. It is also great for lazy people that empty/clean their skimmer on an infrequent basis.

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    @Zombie
    Please reply me at "[email protected]"
    i have some queries and need help.
    as I new user on this forum, I cant post and I could not sent PM to anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOFIndia View Post
    @Zombie
    Please reply me at "[email protected]"
    i have some queries and need help.
    as I new user on this forum, I cant post and I could not sent PM to anyone.
    You just did!

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    Did anyone here find a ball valve that will work on this?

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    I am not aware of anyone identifying a gravity-fed solenoid valve that will work for a saltwater application. As mentioned above, I use a large container equipped with a shut-off float switch. The skimmer drain line runs to this container and permits a much larger volume of skimmate to be collected before turning off the skimmer.

  22. #22
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    I have been using a solenoid made to use with a drain application and I run the skimmate directly to a drain. The solenoid is controlled by my Apex and opens once a day for a few minutes to drain the cup. No worries about container getting full and overflowing while I'm away. I went with the solenoid because couldn't find a three way ball valve that I could control remotely for a cheap price.

    Here's a link to the solenoid I bought, only $13.99. https://www.ebay.com/itm/12337521329...wAAOSw7fhbn8g0

    Mickey

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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyCT View Post
    I have been using a solenoid made to use with a drain application and I run the skimmate directly to a drain. The solenoid is controlled by my Apex and opens once a day for a few minutes to drain the cup. No worries about container getting full and overflowing while I'm away. I went with the solenoid because couldn't find a three way ball valve that I could control remotely for a cheap price.

    Here's a link to the solenoid I bought, only $13.99. https://www.ebay.com/itm/12337521329...wAAOSw7fhbn8g0

    Mickey
    Love the idea. Would you be willing to share pics of your setup and how it all works? I’d be interested in something similar for my tank.

  24. #24
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    I'm not really sure pictures will help but I'll try to take some tomorrow and post them with an explanation.

  25. #25
    Frequent Visitor MickeyCT's Avatar
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    The link I posted above is actually to a 12VDC valve which is NOT what I'm using. Here's the link to the 24VDC valve that I have connected to my Apex with the Neptune accessory cable. Apex opens the solenoid once a day. Takes only 30-45 seconds to drain. I clean the skimmer cup and neck every week or two and just close the ball valve and pull off the hose to remove the cup.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/12374669098...wAAOSw7fhbn8g0

    The pictures below show the ball valve connected to the skimmer outlet which I always leave open. Then the hose goes to the solenoid which is attached by velcro to a pipe that goes through my floor to the basement. It's a little hard to see in the picture because the valve is pretty small and between the hose connection and the velcro not much to see. The hose on the other side follows the pipe to the basement and ends in a drain I had installed that is tee'd off the drain to a sink down there. It looks black in the picture but is just dirty from all the skimmate. Sump area is pretty messy and needs a good cleaning.

    I have my return pump in the basement and the pipe the valve is velcro'd to is used to do water changes from the basement and I pump the waste water from a barrel where it is collected to the same waste drain.

    Hope these help.

    Mickey

    Skimmer.jpgSolenoid.jpg

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