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Thread: Solenoid programming question

  1. #1
    Regular Vistor
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    Solenoid programming question

    My Neptune solenoid programming doesn’t seem to work. It recognizes when the ATO_L sensor is open, and starts to fill the reservoir, but turns off when the ATO_L is Closed? Why is this happening?




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  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    You should not use a set OFF in this application.

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  3. #3
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    For an explanation of why zombie said that, see this post: https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...l=1#post114462
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys. Taking out Set OFF fixed the start/stop issue. The problem now is that it doesn’t stop when the ATO_H switch is covered, but I think that switch might be bad. It’s not switching from Open to Closed on Fusion.


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  5. #5
    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    Make sure the high level switch connector is fully seated. It's greyed out in your code above so maybe the Apex isn't seeing it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkpetersen View Post
    Make sure the high level switch connector is fully seated. It's greyed out in your code above so maybe the Apex isn't seeing it.
    I didn’t notice that, thanks so much for catching it! I’ll have a look when I get home. I’ve unplugged and plugged in again so many times trying to figure this out, I’ve lost count!


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  7. #7
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    Not sure if this is related, but when I use auto detection, it selects that port as Water On Floor sensor, rather than Optical like the rest.




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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinerMaginer View Post
    Not sure if this is related, but when I use auto detection, it selects that port as Water On Floor sensor, rather than Optical like the rest.




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    That means either the probe is not fully seated, there is a problem with the sensor, or there is a problem with the port.

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  9. #9
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    Ok, thanks as always for the insight! Will play around with it tonight and then reach out to Neptune if I can’t correct it.


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  10. #10
    Frequent Visitor rkpetersen's Avatar
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    Also, it's best not to use Auto-Detect at all. Just set each port to what is actually connected to it.

  11. #11
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkpetersen View Post
    Also, it's best not to use Auto-Detect at all. Just set each port to what is actually connected to it.
    In many cases, yes but not always. If you want your failure mode to be OPEN for an optical sensor, you do want auto-detect.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    For an explanation of why zombie said that, see this post: https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...l=1#post114462
    I read the link and get that you should not include the Set when using 2 switches, but the default ATK program does use this, why?
    1. Fallback OFF
    2. Set OFF
    3. If FMM_LO OPEN Then ON
    4. If FMM_HI CLOSED Then OFF
    5. When On > 005:00 Then OFF
    6. Defer 000:10 Then ON
    7. Defer 000:04 Then OFF
    8. Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

    I use a solenoid instead of a PMUP since my RO/DI feed can be gravity fed, so I have the following now:
    Fallback OFF
    If ATO-Lo OPEN Then ON
    If ATO-Hi CLOSED Then OFF
    If SumpHI CLOSED Then OFF
    When On > 030:00 Then OFF
    Defer 002:00 Then ON
    Defer 003:00 Then OFF

    (SumpHI is a secondary high level sensor as I've had them fail)

    I removed the Min time as I dont care how often it fills.

    I removed the Set OFF that was there before after reading this but am unclear why it would be there by default

  13. #13
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkfrey View Post
    I read the link and get that you should not include the Set when using 2 switches, but the default ATK program does use this, why?
    1. Fallback OFF
    2. Set OFF
    3. If FMM_LO OPEN Then ON
    4. If FMM_HI CLOSED Then OFF
    5. When On > 005:00 Then OFF
    6. Defer 000:10 Then ON
    7. Defer 000:04 Then OFF
    8. Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

    I use a solenoid instead of a PMUP since my RO/DI feed can be gravity fed, so I have the following now:
    Fallback OFF
    If ATO-Lo OPEN Then ON
    If ATO-Hi CLOSED Then OFF
    If SumpHI CLOSED Then OFF
    When On > 030:00 Then OFF
    Defer 002:00 Then ON
    Defer 003:00 Then OFF

    (SumpHI is a secondary high level sensor as I've had them fail)

    I removed the Min time as I dont care how often it fills.

    I removed the Set OFF that was there before after reading this but am unclear why it would be there by default
    The default ATK code uses that because with ATO (it's most common use), the goal is to have water level stay as consistent as possible and use the upper sensor as an emergency backup. With reservoirs the goal is to fill to the top when empty.

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  14. #14
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    ok, so I'll put it back

    mechanically, what difference does it make though? I am just getting back into the Apex after being away for 12 years so needing to (re)learn all this

  15. #15
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkfrey View Post
    ok, so I'll put it back

    mechanically, what difference does it make though? I am just getting back into the Apex after being away for 12 years so needing to (re)learn all this
    Having the set off is safer and more consistent since the water level varies less and has a backup in case a sensor fails but that is done at the expense of shortening the fill times. Not having the set off expands the variation in water level, which is not ideal for ATO but extends the runtime, which reduces TDS creep when fed directly from RODI since that has a lesser effect the longer it runs.

    For your application as an RODI direct fed ATO (I incorrectly assumed reservoir fill based on your initial question), I would keep the set OFF, use a long defer then OFF to reduce TDS creep (time the defer then OFF to be about 1/2 to 3/4 of the time it takes to fill from the low sensor to the high sensor). This gives you the best of both worlds by giving you a backup optical to catch failures but reduce TDS creep.

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  16. #16
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    Solenoid Program without sensors

    New member here. I don't mean to derail this thread, but I can't figure out how to start a new thread.

    I am looking to use solenoids to fill my ATO reservoir using time functions only. I have found several examples of programming with sensors, but I am not looking to use sensors.

    What I am looking to do:
    I have two apex solenoids and would like to have one open for ~1 minute that diverts the output from my RO membrane to waste in an effort to remove any TDS creep from draining my DI resin. Then, after the waste solenoid closes, I would like to open the second solenoid for ~30 minutes that sends the output of my RO membrane through my DI resin and into my ATO reservoir. I would like this sequence to happen only once a day. I have tried simple "If Time" commands but can't get it to work.
    I know it would be best to use sensors for this but I don't have any additional sensor ports on my FMM. I have a couple of safeguards in place to prevent flooding. The input to my ATO reservoir has a float valve on it and above the float valve is a tube that runs to a drain in case the float valve fails.

    Any help with this would be greatly appreciated!

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