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Thread: ApexEL

  1. #1
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    ApexEL

    I have found comparison of Apex and ApexEL at the bottom of the ApexEL product description. At this point this is the only information I have.

    https://www.neptunesystems.com/apexel/

    My basic understanding is that the Salinity, ORP and light dimming (0-10v) outputs are not available on the ApexEL. In the comparison chart they are listed as Optional so I assume you can add them at a later time.

    Are there any other differences?

    What is the maximum distance the energy bar can be from the controller?

    What type of cable connects the energy bar to the controller?

    What is the maximum rate that you can switch the AC outputs on/off?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Here you have some more detail from Marine Depot.

    https://youtu.be/2RH4ltCgv9U

    Differences with ´full´model are clear.

  3. #3
    Frequent Visitor bigjim's Avatar
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    Sounds like the EL is to the JR what the 2016 is to the Classic.

    According to the EL web page it says "Android app controlled". Will this "Android app" work with the Classic too?

  4. #4
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    The forthcoming APEX Fusion app for Android works with all Apex models.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  5. #5
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    Guys do you know if all modules that work with classic now will work with this?


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  6. #6
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    so if you have a PM2 providing Salinity and Temp I don't see any reason to buy the new Apex and not the Apex EL. It is cheaper and scales to the same levels as the 'Apex'. Maybe I read that wrong.

  7. #7
    Frequent Visitor LobsterOfJustice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjim View Post
    Sounds like the EL is to the JR what the 2016 is to the Classic.

    According to the EL web page it says "Android app controlled". Will this "Android app" work with the Classic too?
    Not really... the JR is much more limited compared to the classic vs the EL compared to the 2016. The EL is analogous to the Classic “Lite” that was discontinued a few years ago. The things that aren’t included with the EL can be added with modules and you can end up with a system just as capable/comparable to the “full” 2016. That’s not the case with the Jr.


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    180g reef with all the bells and whistles

  8. #8
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonmf View Post
    Guys do you know if all modules that work with classic now will work with this?
    All Apex modules will work with the ApexEL. Legacy peripherals from the pre-Apex generations of controllers like the AC2 and AC3 will not.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjim View Post
    Sounds like the EL is to the JR what the 2016 is to the Classic.

    According to the EL web page it says "Android app controlled". Will this "Android app" work with the Classic too?
    Not quite. The EL is like a supped up JR with a PM1, 1link, 24V ports, 4 extra outlets, better processor, better interface, support for future modules like the trident.

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  10. #10
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    Thanks for all the comments. Just wondering if anyone has answers to the remaining questions:

    What is the maximum distance the energy bar can be from the controller?

    What type of cable connects the energy bar to the controller?

    What is the maximum rate that you can switch the AC outputs on/off?

    Thanks in advance.

  11. #11
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingWisdom View Post
    Thanks for all the comments. Just wondering if anyone has answers to the remaining questions:
    What is the maximum distance the energy bar can be from the controller?

    You can have a total distance of 250ft of aquabus between all modules. You shouldn't exceed 50ft for a single cable though some have had luck up to 100ft. The cords that come with are 6ft I believe.

    What type of cable connects the energy bar to the controller?

    Aquabus, which is basically just a USB cable for all intents and purposes.

    What is the maximum rate that you can switch the AC outputs on/off?

    Theoretically the maximum is 43,000 per day, but that would wear out the outlet pretty quickly. Realistically an outlet shouldn't be switched no more than 20 times per hour if you want to get at least 5 years out of the energy bar.

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  12. #12
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    Along that line, does anyone know if the 24 volt outputs are relay switched or electronic?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Walker View Post
    Along that line, does anyone know if the 24 volt outputs are relay switched or electronic?
    Probably relay since they click.

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  14. #14
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Walker View Post
    Along that line, does anyone know if the 24 volt outputs are relay switched or electronic?
    The EB832, 1LINK, and FMM DC24 outputs are all relay-switched.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    The EB832, 1LINK, and FMM DC24 outputs are all relay-switched.
    Thanks, good to know.

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    So this is my setup now. Does everything I need currently. So I could upgrade and keep every feature I have now?? I’m wondering if I’m missing something, why would I need to buy the full version?


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  17. #17
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    You can have a total distance of 250ft of aquabus between all modules. You shouldn't exceed 50ft for a single cable though some have had luck up to 100ft. The cords that come with are 6ft I believe.
    The documented value is 200' for the combined total length of all Aquabus cables. There is no such documented limit per individual cable.

    Theoretically the maximum is 43,000 per day
    Why do you have to make things so complicated? Not everyone is going to immediately recognize that you took the 1-second granularity of programming for an EB outlet, doubled that for a 2-second time to do a complete ON/OFF cycle, then divided that into the number of seconds per day, then rounded down the result to get your 43,000. Wouldn't have been much simpler and clearer to have said that the outlet state can be changed every second if desired?
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  18. #18
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    Thanks again for comments.

    After further searches I found the following on what is an aquabus cable. Would note that much of the info in that response came from the same people answering in this thread.

    https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...-Aquabus-cable

  19. #19
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    If a power outage occurs (or even a power hit) does the Apex restore to the same state as before the power interruption?

    Must the Apex be connected to the internet to restore from the power interruption or does it keep a local record for the case where the internet is not available?

    Any other comments with respect to this issue would be appreciated.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonmf View Post


    So this is my setup now. Does everything I need currently. So I could upgrade and keep every feature I have now?? I’m wondering if I’m missing something, why would I need to buy the full version?


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    Your current setup has two pH/ORP probe ports used, but the ApexEL only has one. You are also using Varspd ports, but those could be swapped over to your VDM. The ApexEL would work if you're fine with losing one of those probe ports or getting a PM1 to supplement it. However, since you also have a PM2, it would probably be just as cost effective to get the full version and sell your PM2.

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingWisdom View Post
    If a power outage occurs (or even a power hit) does the Apex restore to the same state as before the power interruption?

    Must the Apex be connected to the internet to restore from the power interruption or does it keep a local record for the case where the internet is not available?

    Any other comments with respect to this issue would be appreciated.
    No. The devices will run in whatever you have their Fallback state set to while it boosts, and then one second after boot completes it will be at whatever state it should be at that time.

    The apex does not require an internet or even a local network connection at all to function once programmed. It can be programmed from your local network without an internet connection. The internet connection is only required to access fusion and receive alerts.

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  22. #22
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    You should always use a power conditioner to account for surges and brownouts. I just bought an APC J25B 8-Outlet J-Type Power Conditioner with Battery Backup. I had a brown-out event (Las Vegas in the summer) that wiped out the Apex (2016), 2 EB832's, and 6 modules (all the Aquabus connected devices). It also wiped out my Hayward pump for my pool and a power strip upstairs that detects brown-outs. While the APC wouldn't have helped with my pool, it would have saved my Apex system. So by trying to save a little money initially, I ended up spending the money anyway on the power conditioner and then had to pay for expensive repairs to my system. The worst part is, I was a computer professional for over 30 years and I should've known better. It was my own damn fault.


    The APEX stores info locally (hence, the apex.local website). So if your Apex is not damaged by the power event, it should come right back online. The local programming defaults to any fallback settings or any programming within your output configuration.

    Hope this helps.

  23. #23
    Frequent Visitor bigjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Why do you have to make things so complicated? Not everyone is going to immediately recognize that you took the 1-second granularity of programming for an EB outlet, doubled that for a 2-second time to do a complete ON/OFF cycle, then divided that into the number of seconds per day, then rounded down the result to get your 43,000. Wouldn't have been much simpler and clearer to have said that the outlet state can be changed every second if desired?
    Because he's an engineer and that's what engineers do. It's in their DNA. While things like this often go over my head I do enjoy (and occasionally learn) from them.

  24. #24
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    A previous post talked about power conditioning/battery backup. I did some searching and found some posts talking about a 12v supply. A little more searching and I found the Apex classic has a 12v supply and its use to detect power outages. I did not see any such talk on the Apex EL page.

    I have a hydroponics application with a 315W light. The problem with this light is that you are not supposed to turn it off/on/off on like what happens with a power outage or glitch. I have had the bulb get destroyed when the power glitched on/off a couple times. Ideally, what I would like to do is have a UPS power the Apex, and power bar which powers the light, etc. On detection of a power glitch/outage the UPS would protect the light from the on/off glitches but it would not be able to run long in back up mode. Thus when the glitch/outage is detected the Apex controller would turn off the light so only the Apex and whatever low power devices I decided to keep powered up. I could then re-enable the light after a notification or some period of time (say 5 to 10 minutes) of power being back on without glitches/outages. The plants will just think it is night time so no problem for them. My main concern is to stop the light from being ruined.

    Is it possible to set up the Apex EL as I described above? Is there a post/article I could read talking about it and if so where? If there is no post how could this be accomplished?

  25. #25
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingWisdom View Post
    A previous post talked about power conditioning/battery backup. I did some searching and found some posts talking about a 12v supply. A little more searching and I found the Apex classic has a 12v supply and its use to detect power outages. I did not see any such talk on the Apex EL page.

    I have a hydroponics application with a 315W light. The problem with this light is that you are not supposed to turn it off/on/off on like what happens with a power outage or glitch. I have had the bulb get destroyed when the power glitched on/off a couple times. Ideally, what I would like to do is have a UPS power the Apex, and power bar which powers the light, etc. On detection of a power glitch/outage the UPS would protect the light from the on/off glitches but it would not be able to run long in back up mode. Thus when the glitch/outage is detected the Apex controller would turn off the light so only the Apex and whatever low power devices I decided to keep powered up. I could then re-enable the light after a notification or some period of time (say 5 to 10 minutes) of power being back on without glitches/outages. The plants will just think it is night time so no problem for them. My main concern is to stop the light from being ruined.

    Is it possible to set up the Apex EL as I described above? Is there a post/article I could read talking about it and if so where? If there is no post how could this be accomplished?
    It has one. Right here. It doesnt come with the power supply, but it has accommodations to use one.

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