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Thread: Cant attatch Hydra 26HD to apex via iota

  1. #1
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    Cant attatch Hydra 26HD to apex via iota

    Hi!

    Been waiting for this feature for a long time and now i've been trying to set it up multiple times this morning. I have updated the apex and rebooted it twice, resetted the hydra 26HD and reconnected it to the same wifi as the apex twice. Nomather what i try i cant get it listed when searching for IOTA devices.

    iota hydra.png

    Any suggestions? I've followed the new guide provided to attach iota devices with no succsess.

  2. #2
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Post info about your router - brand and model please.

    If you can, try a test using the Apex connected using a hard-wired connection directly to your router. Connect it, reboot the Apex, wait several minutes, then check to see if the Apex has discovered your lights.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Post info about your router - brand and model please.

    If you can, try a test using the Apex connected using a hard-wired connection directly to your router. Connect it, reboot the Apex, wait several minutes, then check to see if the Apex has discovered your lights.

    Netgear R7000 Nighthawk AC1900, good router and nothing should be blocked within it. I could try that yes

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    I have the same router "Netgear R7000 Nighthawk AC1900" and AI Prime HD. Same problem as above.
    I have confirmed:
    1. Running correct firmware on both devices
    2. Tried both checked and unchecked Disable IGMP Proxying found on the Advanced>Setup>WAN Setup section

    The router is in a different room than my tank so have not been able to try running a cable as of yet.

  5. #5
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    The Nighthawk R8000P I have has the same issue. It is blocking the traffic sent out by the lights which is used by the Apex to discover those lights on the network. This only applies if the Apex and lights are both connected to the router's Wi-Fi. The Apex will see the AIs' traffic (called multicast packets) if it is connected to the router with a network cable. The best solution right now is to use an Ethernet connection for the Apex. As stated in the IOTA / AI User Guide, you must disable Wi-Fi in the Apex if using an Ethernet connection. The Guide will walk you through doing that.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  6. #6
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    I have the same problem but with Apple Time Machine/router. I tried the IGMP snooping option and no change.... any other ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    The Nighthawk R8000P I have has the same issue. It is blocking the traffic sent out by the lights which is used by the Apex to discover those lights on the network. This only applies if the Apex and lights are both connected to the router's Wi-Fi. The Apex will see the AIs' traffic (called multicast packets) if it is connected to the router with a network cable. The best solution right now is to use an Ethernet connection for the Apex. As stated in the IOTA / AI User Guide, you must disable Wi-Fi in the Apex if using an Ethernet connection. The Guide will walk you through doing that.
    Using cabel to the apex then attatching the hydra worked like a charm.

  8. #8
    Frequent Visitor Torx's Avatar
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    For the Nighthawk guys, I read elsewhere that hooking the up wired to set them up helped in setting them up. Then going wirelessly was fine.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
    Current: 120 Gallon Peninsula DIY system.

  9. #9
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torx View Post
    For the Nighthawk guys, I read elsewhere that hooking the up wired to set them up helped in setting them up. Then going wirelessly was fine.
    This is not a viable solution; it will not work in the long term.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  10. #10
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    Am I understanding this correctly that you cannot have the Apex and Hydra 26HD Lights on the same Wifi network at the same time to use this feature? You have to hardwire the Apex to make it work? if this is the case, this confuses me.

    If this is true, is there an actual technical explanation as to why?

    I also get the same "not found message".

    I am using Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway, Unifi PoE Switch, Unifi AP AC Pro and a Unifi Mesh AP.

    At present, where my Apex is located I do not have the ability to run ethernet. I did have to install the Mesh AP 2 feet from the Apex and Lights to keep them on the network reliably due to terrible receiving antennas in both devices. Even 2 feet away, the lights only get 3 bars signal strength and the apex is the same. Where as any other wireless device gets full bars near the mesh or even near our main AP which is 20 feet away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raxnar View Post
    Am I understanding this correctly that you cannot have the Apex and Hydra 26HD Lights on the same Wifi network at the same time to use this feature? You have to hardwire the Apex to make it work? if this is the case, this confuses me.

    If this is true, is there an actual technical explanation as to why?

    I also get the same "not found message".

    I am using Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway, Unifi PoE Switch, Unifi AP AC Pro and a Unifi Mesh AP.

    At present, where my Apex is located I do not have the ability to run ethernet. I did have to install the Mesh AP 2 feet from the Apex and Lights to keep them on the network reliably due to terrible receiving antennas in both devices. Even 2 feet away, the lights only get 3 bars signal strength and the apex is the same. Where as any other wireless device gets full bars near the mesh or even near our main AP which is 20 feet away.
    Using Unifi also (USG, switch, AC Pro). I was just able to get it working by enabling "Multicast Enhancement Enable multicast enhancement (IGMPv3)" under the wireless network advanced options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    This is not a viable solution; it will not work in the long term.
    Curious why you say this not a viable solution for the long term? Does it reset or revert after the apex is set back to wireless?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon99 View Post
    Using Unifi also (USG, switch, AC Pro). I was just able to get it working by enabling "Multicast Enhancement Enable multicast enhancement (IGMPv3)" under the wireless network advanced options.

    Ah yes, that's the option I was thinking about, just got home!

    Worked a treat!

  14. #14
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon99 View Post
    Using Unifi also (USG, switch, AC Pro). I was just able to get it working by enabling "Multicast Enhancement Enable multicast enhancement (IGMPv3)" under the wireless network advanced options.
    Is this option in the USG configuration? If so, what firmware version is installed on the USG?
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  15. #15
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooke View Post
    Curious why you say this not a viable solution for the long term? Does it reset or revert after the apex is set back to wireless?
    No, the Apex does not lose any IOTA configuration if you change the network connectivity. The AI lights transmit information about themselves every 10 seconds using a type of network traffic called multicast. The Apex receives this traffic to initially learn about the lights (discovery) and also to be advised of any status changes from the lights. The Apex uses this info, including the light's serial number/MAC address, IP address, model, etc. to properly communicate with the light and also to know what the Hyperdrive capabilities of the lights are (each HD model has different HD max values for each color channel). This traffic is what some routers are blocking - some are only passing that traffic from a wireless device (the AI light in this case) out the Ethernet interface, but not passing it out to other devices connected to that same Wi-Fi.

    While you could get it working by connecting the Apex to Ethernet to be able to discover and attach the lights, and then reconnect the Apex to Wi-Fi. After that, the Apex won't receive those discovery/status message, and control of the light by the Apex could quit working at any time if something changes with the light.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  16. #16
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raxnar View Post
    At present, where my Apex is located I do not have the ability to run Ethernet. I did have to install the Mesh AP 2 feet from the Apex and Lights to keep them on the network reliably due to terrible receiving antennas in both devices. Even 2 feet away, the lights only get 3 bars signal strength and the apex is the same. Where as any other wireless device gets full bars near the mesh or even near our main AP which is 20 feet away.
    The AI lights's signal display is well known to read low; that does not mean that the antennas are horrible, just that the displayed signal strength scaling is not done well. The lights themselves do not exhibit poor connectivity characteristics in my testing of all 4 models. Anymore, I ignore the little signal strength bar graph in the AI GUI - it is not of much value. If you want to really test the link quality, do a minute or two of non-stop pings to the light's IP address; look for low ping times without a lot of variance. Likewise, the Apex works fine in my testing at distances in excess of 50' connected to a basic omnidirectional non-beamforming 2.4GHz 100mW / 30 dBm AP. You may be causing more problems that you believe you are solving by having an AP that close - there can be too much of a good thing. For the Apex, the latest AOS/APEX Local has an enhanced signal strength indication on the Wi-Fi setup view, but the better indications are on the Network view, where it shows Signal Strength and Signal Quality as a percentage value. If you were to do a series of tests at various relatively short distances between the AP and Apex, you may see the signal quality actually decrease as the distance between them becomes extremely close.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Is this option in the USG configuration? If so, what firmware version is installed on the USG?
    It's an option in the Unifi Controller software. It should be available in any recent version (5.7 +). I don't recall it being an option in version 5.6 but that version has support ending in November anyway and anyone on that version needs to look at upgrading.

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    Just a couple of observations about IOTA.

    First IGMP and MultiCasting. This is so old school that modern routers are not going to give you the option. I have tried netgear X10, X8 and linksys 9500 all high end gaming routers and the setting is not there and I cannot connect. I dropped dd-wrt on my x8 and was able to setup the lights without issue. And began testing I setup a couple of profiles and even downloaded a few everything loaded up great!. After a few hours I noticed my smart home devices started falling off my network and video streams began to be choppy (I cut the cord I use Direct tv now for cable). It was late and I didnt feel like dealing with it and went to bed. About 4 am I woke up to my hydras on full blasts which I have never had happen using ai software. I checked my apex settings and everything was supposed to be off. I shut off the outlets and went back to bed. Over the past couple of days I have more issues with my network than I have ever had. I logged into my router and removed igmp and those issues disappeared, I have gone a full day with out my tenant or my wife complaining that something wasnt working.

    My concern is that apex is not writing the profiles to nvram. It must be relying on the wifi connection to change the settings, If my lights lose connection (its common for these lights to lose connection) it will be stuck at whatever setting it last sent successfully. That is not a good situation if you are away for a week or 2. On top of it telling us to not have the lights plugged into the apex outlets we lose all control and the lights could be on for the entire time.

    I have removed the lights from apex since I dont want to worry if my lights are on when they are not supposed to be. And set my router back to the stock firmware because of the instability. It was a fun exercise but when I leave tomorrow for a week I want my tank safe and sound.

  19. #19
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmaddox View Post
    First IGMP and MultiCasting. This is so old school that modern routers are not going to give you the option.
    As a long-time network engineer, IMO, routers should not discard or block ANY valid traffic on the LAN or WLAN without the user being able to control that behavior.

    On top of it telling us to not have the lights plugged into the apex outlets
    That is a recommendation, not a mandate. The option is yours, and the IOTA - AI Guide says that you can do so and, how to program the outlet(s) if you opt to do so.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  20. #20
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    My issue it's the fact that if my lights lose connection they stay in that state. During my testing if I bring my wifi down the apex isn't reconnecting the lights after I bring the network back up. Thats a potential dangerous situation.

  21. #21
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    I've had zero issues with all of our smart home devices since turning this feature on for 4 days now.

    There was one instance where my Apex disconnected from wifi but I had placed my Flipper Max beside the AP in the Den. lol, the magnet probably made the AP a little funny.

    As mature as DD-WRT it has issues on some hardware. I tried it on my Netgear X8 for a short time but it ended up making the Wifi worse and very unreliable. Since upgrading to Ubiquiti gear, I've never had better network performance, manageability, or reliability on our property. It is more expensive but you are paying for higher quality equipment.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    The AI lights's signal display is well known to read low; that does not mean that the antennas are horrible, just that the displayed signal strength scaling is not done well. The lights themselves do not exhibit poor connectivity characteristics in my testing of all 4 models. Anymore, I ignore the little signal strength bar graph in the AI GUI - it is not of much value. If you want to really test the link quality, do a minute or two of non-stop pings to the light's IP address; look for low ping times without a lot of variance. Likewise, the Apex works fine in my testing at distances in excess of 50' connected to a basic omnidirectional non-beamforming 2.4GHz 100mW / 30 dBm AP. You may be causing more problems that you believe you are solving by having an AP that close - there can be too much of a good thing. For the Apex, the latest AOS/APEX Local has an enhanced signal strength indication on the Wi-Fi setup view, but the better indications are on the Network view, where it shows Signal Strength and Signal Quality as a percentage value. If you were to do a series of tests at various relatively short distances between the AP and Apex, you may see the signal quality actually decrease as the distance between them becomes extremely close.
    I don't know what else to tell you other than both devices could not stay connected reliably to our main AP that was 12-15" away.

    Since placing the Mesh AP in the Den connectivity has been flawless.

    Our neighborhood is super saturated with wifi networks where people do not set the channel they use to avoid overlap and it causes a lot of problems. Perhaps this is partly why.

    Regardless, I was able to fix the issue without having to run another physical network run.

    Before the Mesh AP in the Den, Ping charting would show tons of dropped packets when I was able to get the devices connected.

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