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Thread: Few Questions about Apex.

  1. #1
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    Few Questions about Apex.

    Hey guys I had a few questions about Apex systems.

    Preface, I am not using it for a tank, but for a Reptile Vivarium (you guys really need to make an Apex Reptile! )

    Anyway, onward to the questions.

    1. With the lighting control, I seen videos that show a storm check box, but dont give detail beyond that. Is the probability configurable? Another words, can I force a storm, 3 times a day every single day, at the exact same time? (If no, we can end here an Apex wont work for my needs)

    2. I know their are outlet timers, what kind of programming is allowed for those? Anotherwords, I have a misting system pump that needs to be turned on for 1 min 3 different times per day, (same time as the storms, thats why the storms)

    3. Will the WXM Module work for Radion XR15 gen 4s?

    4. What would I need for an Apex JR to control 1, 0-10v dimmable T5?

    Thank you very much in advance.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Hey guys I had a few questions about Apex systems.

    Preface, I am not using it for a tank, but for a Reptile Vivarium (you guys really need to make an Apex Reptile! )

    I don't think they are in the business of making crocodiles

    Anyway, onward to the questions.

    1. With the lighting control, I seen videos that show a storm check box, but dont give detail beyond that. Is the probability configurable? Another words, can I force a storm, 3 times a day every single day, at the exact same time? (If no, we can end here an Apex wont work for my needs)

    The probability is not configurable from the checkbox, but you can create profiles to customize weather events if the default probabilities aren't to your liking. It's a bit more complex than the graph, but it's not tremendously difficult to do. When you're ready just post up what you want to happen and we can tell you how to code it.

    2. I know their are outlet timers, what kind of programming is allowed for those? Anotherwords, I have a misting system pump that needs to be turned on for 1 min 3 different times per day, (same time as the storms, thats why the storms)

    What you want to do here is easily achieved through if time statements and a defer (or OSC if they are evenly spaced) the entire list of supported programming statements is listed in the comprehensive users manual and there are ways to get even more functionality by properly combining statements and virtual outlets

    3. Will the WXM Module work for Radion XR15 gen 4s?

    Yes

    4. What would I need for an Apex JR to control 1, 0-10v dimmable T5?

    You would need a VDM or you would need to get a classic instead to have 0-10V ports


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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    I don't think they are in the business of making crocodiles
    As those of us old enough to remember the '70s know, crocodiles rock!

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    Hey guys I had a few questions about Apex systems.

    Preface, I am not using it for a tank, but for a Reptile Vivarium

    3. Will the WXM Module work for Radion XR15 gen 4s?

    Yes
    The full answer is that the saltwater/marine variants of the Gen4 Radions fully work with the Apex & WXM. The freshwater variant is not supported.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Hey guys I had a few questions about Apex systems.

    Preface, I am not using it for a tank, but for a Reptile Vivarium (you guys really need to make an Apex Reptile! )

    I don't think they are in the business of making crocodiles

    Anyway, onward to the questions.

    1. With the lighting control, I seen videos that show a storm check box, but dont give detail beyond that. Is the probability configurable? Another words, can I force a storm, 3 times a day every single day, at the exact same time? (If no, we can end here an Apex wont work for my needs)

    The probability is not configurable from the checkbox, but you can create profiles to customize weather events if the default probabilities aren't to your liking. It's a bit more complex than the graph, but it's not tremendously difficult to do. When you're ready just post up what you want to happen and we can tell you how to code it.

    2. I know their are outlet timers, what kind of programming is allowed for those? Anotherwords, I have a misting system pump that needs to be turned on for 1 min 3 different times per day, (same time as the storms, thats why the storms)

    What you want to do here is easily achieved through if time statements and a defer (or OSC if they are evenly spaced) the entire list of supported programming statements is listed in the comprehensive users manual and there are ways to get even more functionality by properly combining statements and virtual outlets

    3. Will the WXM Module work for Radion XR15 gen 4s?

    Yes

    4. What would I need for an Apex JR to control 1, 0-10v dimmable T5?

    You would need a VDM or you would need to get a classic instead to have 0-10V ports


    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Okay now I am going to into real depth.

    I need a yes and no to if this is list is possible, these are things I need to achieve. With the price of everything needed, I would really prefer to use Apex as a full brain of the system.

    1. A. I need 2 basking lights, I will be mounting tempature probes slightly below them, I need each light to respond to it's probe, and Dim (not turn off, would have to be 110v Dimming) when the maximum tempature is reached.

    B. I also need to be able to turn these lights off completely 3 times a day for 30mins to an hour. (If it cannot be dimmed, but can be shut on and off, due to tempatures, then answer this as well thanks)

    C. Also need to have a different tempature for night than day. I do need these to be able to turn on at night if the tempature drops below 60f or so.



    2. I need fans, that will turn on when a center tempature probe reaches a set temp and stay on until the temp reaches below a threshhold to make sure temps are not too high.

    I also need these fans to be able to be force activated several times a day.

    3. I need a humidity probe, it doesn't need to activate anything or change anything, just give me a readout of the humidity.

    4. I would like an LCD screen I can mount to the cage, to see tempatures and humidity on the fly.

    5. Will the water PH sensor also work for my soil?

    Also as to the aligators, ya that's fine and good but when I started this cage about a year ago, I spoke with Apex CS, about some other ideas, and made the same statement and was told that a reptile version was actually being looked into. Also reefkeeper made a Herpkeeper but now they are out of business.

    The reptile hobby, is pretty barren of good automation, and it hinders our ability to do things the right way and is a barrier to more exoctic species. Snakes and geckos are covered, and that's about it lol. You should see the reptile LEDs, we have esentially a cheaper Hydra 26, that they want 400 for, that doesn't even have programming, just a cheap Chinese led remote, and some built in ramping.

    Thanks in advance,

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    1. A. I need 2 basking lights, I will be mounting tempature probes slightly below them, I need each light to respond to it's probe, and Dim (not turn off, would have to be 110v Dimming) when the maximum tempature is reached.

    Possible with a fair bit of DIY. You would be better off using one basking bulb and one ceramic heater and have the ceramic heater turn on and off to maintain correct temp

    B. I also need to be able to turn these lights off completely 3 times a day for 30mins to an hour. (If it cannot be dimmed, but can be shut on and off, due to tempatures, then answer this as well thanks)

    Easy to do

    C. Also need to have a different tempature for night than day. I do need these to be able to turn on at night if the tempature drops below 60f or so.

    Takes a bit of programming, but isnt too hard to pull off

    2. I need fans, that will turn on when a center tempature probe reaches a set temp and stay on until the temp reaches below a threshhold to make sure temps are not too high.

    I also need these fans to be able to be force activated several times a day.

    Easy to do

    3. I need a humidity probe, it doesn't need to activate anything or change anything, just give me a readout of the humidity.

    There isnt a plug and play option for this. I have helped several users add this functionality and it's pretty pricey. It requires a humidity sensor with 0-5V output and an ASM module, which is about $400 for all the required sensors. Much more cost effective to buy a couple humidistats and wire into a Breakout box for alarming purposes and use a digital humidity sensor for local display

    4. I would like an LCD screen I can mount to the cage, to see tempatures and humidity on the fly.

    The apex display that comes with the Jr or classic can do this, and you can also use a tablet with fusion opened as a webpage for a bigger prettier display

    5. Will the water PH sensor also work for my soil?

    Dont know. Possibly

    Also as to the aligators, ya that's fine and good but when I started this cage about a year ago, I spoke with Apex CS, about some other ideas, and made the same statement and was told that a reptile version was actually being looked into. Also reefkeeper made a Herpkeeper but now they are out of business.

    I was joking...Apex predator, Apex reptile, crocodile



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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    1. A. I need 2 basking lights, I will be mounting tempature probes slightly below them, I need each light to respond to it's probe, and Dim (not turn off, would have to be 110v Dimming) when the maximum tempature is reached.

    Possible with a fair bit of DIY. You would be better off using one basking bulb and one ceramic heater and have the ceramic heater turn on and off to maintain correct temp

    B. I also need to be able to turn these lights off completely 3 times a day for 30mins to an hour. (If it cannot be dimmed, but can be shut on and off, due to tempatures, then answer this as well thanks)

    Easy to do

    C. Also need to have a different tempature for night than day. I do need these to be able to turn on at night if the tempature drops below 60f or so.

    Takes a bit of programming, but isnt too hard to pull off

    2. I need fans, that will turn on when a center tempature probe reaches a set temp and stay on until the temp reaches below a threshhold to make sure temps are not too high.

    I also need these fans to be able to be force activated several times a day.

    Easy to do

    3. I need a humidity probe, it doesn't need to activate anything or change anything, just give me a readout of the humidity.

    There isnt a plug and play option for this. I have helped several users add this functionality and it's pretty pricey. It requires a humidity sensor with 0-5V output and an ASM module, which is about $400 for all the required sensors. Much more cost effective to buy a couple humidistats and wire into a Breakout box for alarming purposes and use a digital humidity sensor for local display

    4. I would like an LCD screen I can mount to the cage, to see tempatures and humidity on the fly.

    The apex display that comes with the Jr or classic can do this, and you can also use a tablet with fusion opened as a webpage for a bigger prettier display

    5. Will the water PH sensor also work for my soil?

    Dont know. Possibly

    Also as to the aligators, ya that's fine and good but when I started this cage about a year ago, I spoke with Apex CS, about some other ideas, and made the same statement and was told that a reptile version was actually being looked into. Also reefkeeper made a Herpkeeper but now they are out of business.

    I was joking...Apex predator, Apex reptile, crocodile



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    Good to know on all of them, I actually seen the Humidity thing. I will just hold out until there is a better option, hopefully apex will make us something, thats really all that prevents this from being a full herp system, Reefkeeper did it for 100 as well.

    As to 1. I should have been more clear, I am using something similar to CHE, I am going to using these https://www.internetreptile.com/arca...ector-e27-50w/, however as with those and CHEs, they both want dimming stats, they have a very long warm up time, that is the issue.

    Also I do need 2 basking spots, so which part was the DIY? The ability to dim? Or the ability to make each sensor control each light, I can give it a shot as on and off and see how it goes, I also wrote Arcadia and asked them how big of a deal is not using a proportional stat. However the thermometers working with only 1 light each and 1 working with only cooling is 100% a requirement.

    And thanks... lol, you just sold me on 800 dollars worth of Apex Gear! My wallet loves you right now!

  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The automated dimming of the masking lamps would require a fair bit of DIY. Less so if you just want a manual knob. That would just require a little bit of 120V wiring in some proper enclosures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The automated dimming of the masking lamps would require a fair bit of DIY. Less so if you just want a manual knob. That would just require a little bit of 120V wiring in some proper enclosures.

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    Okay, I will just stick with off/on for now then. At least I can schedule off times, which I can't do with any proportional stats I found. So that's a win.

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    Grr I dont know why this forum keeps deleting my posts, its irritating .

    Anyway, I have 1 more question Zombie, Warning this is about to get crazy.

    With Storms, I was watching a YT video and didn't really understand what the guy was saying, if it is what I think that would be awesome and better.

    So my question is, can I build a "Storm Group" or some such? What I mean by that is can I have a group, called "Rainfall" and when rainfall is on, I have a 70% chance of Rainfall happening in a timeframe.

    If rainfall does kick on, it sets in motion a event, that event, intersects with multiple devices,

    EG:
    12:00pm "Rainfall" Check, Answer is True.
    12:00pm Basking Lights shut off.
    12:00pm LEDs/Flo begin to darken (Or cloud cover)
    12:00pm Fan Starts blowing gentle breeze.
    12:15pm Leds start Clouds (or get further into it?)
    12:30pm Rain System activates
    12:35pm Rain System ends
    12:40pm LEDs begin to go back to normal shcedule
    12:45pm Fans stop
    1:00pm Basking lights turn back on.

    Basically trying for realistic storm, so first the temps drop, then the clouds start to come in, then the wind starts blowing, then there is rain, then the clouds start to move away, the wind subsides, the heat ramps back up. I have read a few threads, on here and comments from Zombie that makes me think this MAY be possible, just curious if it is.

    Would something like that be possible at all? Also can I define probability.

  11. #11
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    That is definitely possible. It takes a few virtual outlets, but we use that exact same principle for automatic feeding. You set up a sequence with virtual outlets and then you can have one virtual outlet trigger the chain. That way the you can change when they occur and how often they happen at whim or start it by pressing a feed mode to show off to your friends.

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    Hey Zombie so we hit a wall. I was curious if you have any info about the new Beta of AI primes?

    Apparently the Apex cannot control the Freshwater Radions. Well I have to have fresh water spectrums and LEDs. And if the Apex doesn't control that, then this system isn't going to work for me.

    I am wondering will it control the FW AI primes?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry for double post, I can't edit posts it just deletes them.

    Or do you know if any fix is in the works for the Fresh waters? I have found posts going back since 2017, so will their never be a fix?

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    I also guess I should or someone should let BRS know as well. As they tout Radion FW controllable through Apex, but it is not.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    I dont have either, so I don't have any personal experience. I recall that the FW radions can in fact work with the WXM, but there were some missing sliders or something that made control kinda wonky but you could still get it to work. I may be thinking of the Gen 3 though. Someone with more experience with those could probably chime in for more info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    I dont have either, so I don't have any personal experience. I recall that the FW radions can in fact work with the WXM, but there were some missing sliders or something that made control kinda wonky but you could still get it to work. I may be thinking of the Gen 3 though. Someone with more experience with those could probably chime in for more info.

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    It was the G4s, it doesnt make it wonky, it makes it not possible. You cannot control WW at all with Apex, which removes 1/4 of the leds in the light. CW/Red/Green/Blue are still mapped where they should be however.

    I dont mind switching to AI primes FW if those work, but losing 1/4 of the leds, isnt going to fly.

  16. #16
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberlocc View Post
    It was the G4s, it doesnt make it wonky, it makes it not possible. You cannot control WW at all with Apex, which removes 1/4 of the leds in the light. CW/Red/Green/Blue are still mapped where they should be however.

    I dont mind switching to AI primes FW if those work, but losing 1/4 of the leds, isnt going to fly.
    I think you misread the thread. I just reread that thread and what I analyzed was you can still control warm white, they are just mapped to royal blue, which is what makes it wonky but still works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    I think you misread the thread. I just reread that thread and what I analyzed was you can still control warm white, they are just mapped to royal blue, which is what makes it wonky but still works.

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    Nope reread that again, he said he was wrong RB doesn't control the WW, he only had the 8 white lights going, thats the CWs.

    "So I decided to just go with the Ecotech program as I wanted to utilize the new colors. When I was using the Apex, it wasn't using the warm white as I thought"



    Someone later said that you can control WW with tdata, Im waiting for a reply on that. I am waiting for clarification on the "Fix" I have a 4ft tall tank, I need these leds on full blast, losing over 30% of the light simply isnt going to work, dealing with wonkily programming it, I can live with.

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    Might be worthwhile to sign up for whatever local reef club is around you and see if anybody has a WXM and apex they would be willing to let you connect your FW radion yo theirs to play around with it and confirm. It appears from that post the ww issue is fixed with tdata but the graph is wonky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Might be worthwhile to sign up for whatever local reef club is around you and see if anybody has a WXM and apex they would be willing to let you connect your FW radion yo theirs to play around with it and confirm. It appears from that post the ww issue is fixed with tdata but the graph is wonky.

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    Grr the post deleting is get very old.

    Anyway, I doubt there is one, I live in a very small town, very far away from anywhere. It would cost hundreds to go to a reef club and back, plus a full day.

    I would be better off buying the system and sending it back if it doesn't work.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That said I also don't have the Ecotech yet, and if they are not going to work, I may go with the AIs instead, So I really need to know before hand.

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    Also what do you mean about the graph being wonky? Hopefully Jlang can get some testing done soon. As I planed on getting at least one of the ecotechs in a week or 2, I need at least 1 for my current terrium holding the plants for the build.

  21. #21
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberlocc View Post
    Also what do you mean about the graph being wonky? Hopefully Jlang can get some testing done soon. As I planed on getting at least one of the ecotechs in a week or 2, I need at least 1 for my current terrium holding the plants for the build.
    Graph being wonky as it sounds like the WW channel is missing from the sliders which would mean you would need to set up the sliders for everything else, set the intensity in the graph, and then go into the tdata and manually add in the WW channel. Every time its changed, it's possible the WW channel could need to be added back in or something. Jlang can probably get more info since he actually has one to test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Graph being wonky as it sounds like the WW channel is missing from the sliders which would mean you would need to set up the sliders for everything else, set the intensity in the graph, and then go into the tdata and manually add in the WW channel. Every time its changed, it's possible the WW channel could need to be added back in or something. Jlang can probably get more info since he actually has one to test.

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    Yep that or, I will just find a different system to fill my needs. I love the idea of the apex, but I need to control the lights, and I dont appreciate being blatantly lied to. This right here, makes me not want to buy Apex out of principal.

    "Hi Blank,

    Thank you for your inquiry.


    Unfortunately then at this time Radion G4 FW is not compatible. At the time Echotech in conjunction with us developed the WXM module the Freshwater light was not even in development, and now that it is Ecotech has changed the color channels so this is why they do not line up with the Reef lights and has not wanted to work to redevelop the WXM module interface to work with Vectra Pumps or the Radion FW. "

    There has been a FW version of every Ecotech light..... Thats a blatant lie, this isnt some magical new change, there was a FW G1, G2, G3, now here we are in G4, and yet Neptune still dont support it, and we supposed to beielve that Ecotech has never allowed it?

    Oh and then there is the Primes, which are also FW, yet that also isnt supported. Atest, and say we dont feel it would have another users to justify, but to lie to my face like that (figuratively) that is pathetic.

    And if they dont want to support it, like I said in the other thread, they need to specify that, all the reatailers say its supported, Apex says all Radion lights are supported, its lies, and then when questioned they lie some more. Not sure this is a company I want to support anymore.

    Also, the first time they wrote me the work around, and I said well thats what I was wondering will that work, that is when I was told that.

    This problem is a web page slider selection issue, literally 20 mins worth of coding, and they just want to lie about? and play games, ya, moving on. (thats if the workaround works).

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberlocc View Post
    Yep that or, I will just find a different system to fill my needs. I love the idea of the apex, but I need to control the lights, and I dont appreciate being blatantly lied to. This right here, makes me not want to buy Apex out of principal.

    "Hi Blank,

    Thank you for your inquiry.


    Unfortunately then at this time Radion G4 FW is not compatible. At the time Echotech in conjunction with us developed the WXM module the Freshwater light was not even in development, and now that it is Ecotech has changed the color channels so this is why they do not line up with the Reef lights and has not wanted to work to redevelop the WXM module interface to work with Vectra Pumps or the Radion FW. "

    There has been a FW version of every Ecotech light..... Thats a blatant lie, this isnt some magical new change, there was a FW G1, G2, G3, now here we are in G4, and yet Neptune still dont support it, and we supposed to beielve that Ecotech has never allowed it?

    Oh and then there is the Primes, which are also FW, yet that also isnt supported. Atest, and say we dont feel it would have another users to justify, but to lie to my face like that (figuratively) that is pathetic.

    And if they dont want to support it, like I said in the other thread, they need to specify that, all the reatailers say its supported, Apex says all Radion lights are supported, its lies, and then when questioned they lie some more. Not sure this is a company I want to support anymore.

    Also, the first time they wrote me the work around, and I said well thats what I was wondering will that work, that is when I was told that.

    This problem is a web page slider selection issue, literally 20 mins worth of coding, and they just want to lie about? and play games, ya, moving on. (thats if the workaround works).
    The issue is that Ecotech stopped providing API stuff to Neptune when they developed the ReefLink and the two companies have been blaming each other ever since. Ecotech wont give Neptune what they need to add features without reverse engineering and potentially violating patent claims, and Ecotech just expects Neptune to do all the work and says that they are waiting on Neptune to add the support for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The issue is that Ecotech stopped providing API stuff to Neptune when they developed the ReefLink and the two companies have been blaming each other ever since. Ecotech wont give Neptune what they need to add features without reverse engineering and potentially violating patent claims, and Ecotech just expects Neptune to do all the work and says that they are waiting on Neptune to add the support for it.

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    Ya I read about that with the vortech pumps. However like I said, if the Tdata trick works, then there is litteraly no reason, it's just a slider issue, the controls are already there, Neptune just hasn't made them accessible.

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    At this point you’ve probably realized that we have focused our product line solely on the saltwater aquarium market. Other aquarium owners such as those with freshwater discus, planted, etc. have also found our offerings and have used them but to date we have not tailored anything to those markets. Vivariums are even further out of scope for our company at this time so I would not expect that we would do any kind of feature enhancement tailored to that direction.

    As far as the functionality of the Radion lights, I will personally take a look at how those operate and then change any messaging as necessary. Any errors in this respect were not intentional and certainly not “lies” on our part.

    Thank you for you interest in our products.

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