Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: COR 20 head pressure

  1. #1
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    113

    COR 20 head pressure

    I purchased a COR-20 from BRS to replace a pump that failed. Turns out the manufacturer of the failed pump is going to replace my pump even though it's out of warranty due to a flaw in the design that caused it to seize shortly after the 1 year mark. That said, I took the opportunity to buy a COR-20 and am now having doubts that I will get enough flow out of it. I have a 180 gallon mixed reef with a 40 gallon basement sump. The sump is directly underneath the tank. I am using 1 inch PVC all the way to the tank currently. I am planning on replacing this all with 1.25" PVC from the basement and use a 2 inch flow sensor. I will have 2 x 90's, 1 tee, 1 ball valve and a 2 inch flow sensor, about 4 feet of 1.25 PVC vertical, about 5 feet of spa flex, and then it splits to 2 1 inch returns to the tank. I am hoping to get north of 700 GPH with this configuration. Do you think it will be possible?

    I hope this makes sense.

  2. #2
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by stre1026 View Post
    I purchased a COR-20 from BRS to replace a pump that failed. Turns out the manufacturer of the failed pump is going to replace my pump even though it's out of warranty due to a flaw in the design that caused it to seize shortly after the 1 year mark. That said, I took the opportunity to buy a COR-20 and am now having doubts that I will get enough flow out of it. I have a 180 gallon mixed reef with a 40 gallon basement sump. The sump is directly underneath the tank. I am using 1 inch PVC all the way to the tank currently. I am planning on replacing this all with 1.25" PVC from the basement and use a 2 inch flow sensor. I will have 2 x 90's, 1 tee, 1 ball valve and a 2 inch flow sensor, about 4 feet of 1.25 PVC vertical, about 5 feet of spa flex, and then it splits to 2 1 inch returns to the tank. I am hoping to get north of 700 GPH with this configuration. Do you think it will be possible?

    I hope this makes sense.
    I don’t think you will. As great a pump as it is. It doesn’t handle head pressure very well. The head pressure chart you see is for vertical climb in 1.25 strait pipe. I have it on my Red Sea Reefer with 1” pvc direct to tank. 3 90s total and the last one is the t into the tank and no more than 4.5ft from neck of the pump. 480GPH is the most I could get out of it. 430GPH from the cor15. I was going triton and was looking for 800gph but now plans have changed and I’m happy with 480 for now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by XLOR8T View Post
    I don’t think you will. As great a pump as it is. It doesn’t handle head pressure very well. The head pressure chart you see is for vertical climb in 1.25 strait pipe. I have it on my Red Sea Reefer with 1” pvc direct to tank. 3 90s total and the last one is the t into the tank and no more than 4.5ft from neck of the pump. 480GPH is the most I could get out of it. 430GPH from the cor15. I was going triton and was looking for 800gph but now plans have changed and I’m happy with 480 for now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I was actually reading one of your posts about it which had me concerned. I might just use it for my manifold instead...thanks for the info.

  4. #4
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Morgan Hill, CA
    Posts
    1,004
    Use 1.5” or even 2” pipe if possible.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  5. #5
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    113
    I can probably use 2" pipe at least until I get to the basement ceiling but can't go any further because the holes in the floor are only 1.25". Making them bigger would be almost impossible at this point because the tank is in the way and in the basement, I have the main beam of the house in the way. A right-angle drill wouldn't even help.

  6. #6
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by stre1026 View Post
    I can probably use 2" pipe at least until I get to the basement ceiling but can't go any further because the holes in the floor are only 1.25". Making them bigger would be almost impossible at this point because the tank is in the way and in the basement, I have the main beam of the house in the way. A right-angle drill wouldn't even help.
    I think we are holding our breath for a more powerful COR pump. Even if you end up using it for a manifold you will be very happy. Do you have an option to run 2 return pumps going up with 2 1.25 pipes?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Morgan Hill, CA
    Posts
    1,004
    Big gains are had in larger pipe sizes when the runs are long, or if there are fittings in the run. If your shot from the sump to the top of the tank is basically right angle then straight pipe, then tee to the right angles to the tank entry you likely will be ok at 1.25 (going to 1.5 wo t gain much). Another thing to forget about is locline if you want to maximize flow. Just come into the tank with 1”.
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  8. #8
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by XLOR8T View Post
    I think we are holding our breath for a more powerful COR pump. Even if you end up using it for a manifold you will be very happy. Do you have an option to run 2 return pumps going up with 2 1.25 pipes?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is actually what I was thinking. Maybe do the split in the basement because I do have more than 1 1.25" hole.

  9. #9
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by stre1026 View Post
    This is actually what I was thinking. Maybe do the split in the basement because I do have more than 1 1.25" hole.
    I wouldn’t split. Grab another cor20. You won’t regret it. Having 2 return pumps is the ultimate redundancy and backup for failure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    Big gains are had in larger pipe sizes when the runs are long, or if there are fittings in the run. If your shot from the sump to the top of the tank is basically right angle then straight pipe, then tee to the right angles to the tank entry you likely will be ok at 1.25 (going to 1.5 wo t gain much). Another thing to forget about is locline if you want to maximize flow. Just come into the tank with 1”.
    Thanks Terrance. Good to know about the locline. I will just remove it if it adds too much restriction... I was following your build thread on R2R and know you have long runs in your tank. What are you using for a pump these days? Still the Abyzz.

  11. #11
    New User
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    US, Central Time
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by stre1026 View Post
    I purchased a COR-20 from BRS to replace a pump that failed. Turns out the manufacturer of the failed pump is going to replace my pump even though it's out of warranty due to a flaw in the design that caused it to seize shortly after the 1 year mark. That said, I took the opportunity to buy a COR-20 and am now having doubts that I will get enough flow out of it. I have a 180 gallon mixed reef with a 40 gallon basement sump. The sump is directly underneath the tank. I am using 1 inch PVC all the way to the tank currently. I am planning on replacing this all with 1.25" PVC from the basement and use a 2 inch flow sensor. I will have 2 x 90's, 1 tee, 1 ball valve and a 2 inch flow sensor, about 4 feet of 1.25 PVC vertical, about 5 feet of spa flex, and then it splits to 2 1 inch returns to the tank. I am hoping to get north of 700 GPH with this configuration. Do you think it will be possible?

    I hope this makes sense.
    As others have said, I'm afraid the short answer is no...

    I have a similar setup with even worse flow.
    I have 1.25 return pipe but sounds like with more vertical head than you also from a basement sump.
    My 1" flow sensor is showing about 330gph.

    As for larger pipe helping, it is guaranteed to help but I'm afraid not the amount you are looking for.
    The main problem is the pump doesn't like head pressure. Reducing the dynamic head will help but based on your description you won't get much improvement by going to larger pipe.
    Even if you went to a 6" pipe I bet you would only get another 10-20% flow increase if that.

  12. #12
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Usa
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by XLOR8T View Post
    I don’t think you will. As great a pump as it is. It doesn’t handle head pressure very well. The head pressure chart you see is for vertical climb in 1.25 strait pipe. I have it on my Red Sea Reefer with 1” pvc direct to tank. 3 90s total and the last one is the t into the tank and no more than 4.5ft from neck of the pump. 480GPH is the most I could get out of it. 430GPH from the cor15. I was going triton and was looking for 800gph but now plans have changed and I’m happy with 480 for now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I’m having the same problem and it’s starting to really scare me. I have the Red Sea reefer also and the cor 20 started at 502 gph. It’s currently running at 429 After a month. I know they will lose a little with the pipe build up but not that much and it’s still going down. I am still losing about 10gph per week. Only bends are the 3 90s inherent to that tanks plumbing. This is not good.

  13. #13
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Attreui View Post
    I’m having the same problem and it’s starting to really scare me. I have the Red Sea reefer also and the cor 20 started at 502 gph. It’s currently running at 429 After a month. I know they will lose a little with the pipe build up but not that much and it’s still going down. I am still losing about 10gph per week. Only bends are the 3 90s inherent to that tanks plumbing. This is not good.
    What kind of pipe did you use and did you make sure your fittings were pushing in all the way and no excess glue etc? Those will build up crap really fast.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Morgan Hill, CA
    Posts
    1,004
    Depends a lot on the fittings between bottom to top. And locline kills flow. Remember it doesn’t matter where the interference or restriction is on a run. You can have 2” all the way to the tank, and then put two 1/2” locline on there - or even 3/4” and you’d be surprised what it does compared to say two 1” lines straight in. Loc-line is not necessary anymore.
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  15. #15
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Morgan Hill, CA
    Posts
    1,004
    You’d be surprised how much goo and animals builds up in pipes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  16. #16
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Posts
    48
    Same here....I have a reefer 425xl, 1 inch manifold with a two tandem 45 degrees and two 90's and my flow tops out at 500. The issue is the Red Sea 3/4 inch return and right angle at the weir. If I open my two reactors flow drops into the low 400's. Just the reality with the Cor-20, it does not do well with head pressure. If you can go 1.25 or 1 all the way, then great but for most of us using it on a red sea reefer, we are stuck with the final run being 3/4 inch which simply kills the pump.

    For me, my plumbing and manifold are done and mounted in such a way that I cannot add a second pump. I'm just going to go with the Cor-20 for now but see a stronger pump in my future and will move the Cor-20 to my frag system.

  17. #17
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Morgan Hill, CA
    Posts
    1,004
    Your Red Sea reefer issue is the plumbing. The ones I have seen actually have 5/8 plumbing in places with two 1/2” or 5/8” output nozzles.

    Guys, unless you want to run a noisy uncontrolled AC pump, you will never get much higher in that setup. If you did, those nozzles would be high pressure jets.

    400-500gph in a 100g tank is more than enough. I run my 425g tank (600g system) with an Abyzz A400 and 2” pipe and have about 1100gph. I think my tank speaks for itself that it works well at that turnover.

    I need to post a picture of what that 1100gph of flow looks like coming out of the drain so you all can see that you wouldn’t want that in a 20g sump on 120g tank.
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  18. #18
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    Your Red Sea reefer issue is the plumbing. The ones I have seen actually have 5/8 plumbing in places with two 1/2” or 5/8” output nozzles.

    Guys, unless you want to run a noisy uncontrolled AC pump, you will never get much higher in that setup. If you did, those nozzles would be high pressure jets.

    400-500gph in a 100g tank is more than enough. I run my 425g tank (600g system) with an Abyzz A400 and 2” pipe and have about 1100gph. I think my tank speaks for itself that it works well at that turnover.

    I need to post a picture of what that 1100gph of flow looks like coming out of the drain so you all can see that you wouldn’t want that in a 20g sump on 120g tank.
    Terrance, I don’t think anyone is knocking the COR pump. That’s why most of us stuck with it. I would just recommend a head pressure chart based on common plumbing with 90s taken into account so people aren’t scratching their head wondering if the pump is working as expected. The pump is dead silent. Runs cool and the integration is fantastic with the apex. In a custom system I wouldn’t hesitate to run multiple cor pumps.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    VP Sales and Marketing Terence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Morgan Hill, CA
    Posts
    1,004

    COR 20 head pressure

    I think the confusion is that people see the 2000gph rating on a pump and think “ok, I am sure have some head in my system, but there’s no way it could possibly be enough to cut that flow more than in half”

    There are charts you can use. They are plumbing charts. The two to look at are the line loss per 100’ of straight pipe chart and the fittings equivalency chart. Pulling from memory, 3/4” pipe, with no fittings at all, just 100’ horizontal of it, has the equivalent of 19 feet of head pressure. Now look at the equivalency charts for the fittings. And then that valve thingy the RS has.


    Save a pump like the Abyzz at 3-4x the cost, there are no DC pump alternatives I know of that will give you the psi necessary to overcome constricted plumbing in the RS.

    If you want a comparison, put a sweeper nozzle on your garden hose. See how much psi is required to get any kind of volume (gph) of water out of it. And, once you do, look how far it sprays and with what kind of force at say 6” from the nozzle.

    This situation with the RS is like getting a car with a great engine but the wrong gearbox or rear end.
    Terence Fugazzi :: VP Sales and Marketing :: Neptune Systems

  20. #20
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    I think the confusion is that people see the 2000gph rating on a pump and think “ok, I am sure have some head in my system, but there’s no way it could possibly be enough to cut that flow more than in half”

    There are charts you can use. They are plumbing charts. The two to look at are the line loss per 100’ of straight pipe chart and the fittings equivalency chart. Pulling from memory, 3/4” pipe, with no fittings at all, just 100’ horizontal of it, has the equivalent of 19 feet of head pressure. Now look at the equivalency charts for the fittings. And then that valve thingy the RS has.


    Save a pump like the Abyzz at 3-4x the cost, there are no DC pump alternatives I know of that will give you the psi necessary to overcome constricted plumbing in the RS.

    If you want a comparison, put a sweeper nozzle on your garden hose. See how much psi is required to get any kind of volume (gph) of water out of it. And, once you do, look how far it sprays and with what kind of force at say 6” from the nozzle.

    This situation with the RS is like getting a car with a great engine but the wrong gearbox or rear end.
    The Red Sea was design around being silent. Not 10x turn over that people are seeking for Triton. And there are lots of successful triton systems with 4-5x turn over. The valve is on the drain and it’s not affecting flow. The bottleneck is the return nozzle at the end which is a bit smaller than 3/4. I’ve seen an abyzz pump running 1000GPH on a Red Sea 525xl 110g display 30g sump and it works fine. But yes big price difference.

    The only more capable DC pumps are L1 and and maybe varios 8 but as you said. They are not getting abyzz level flow.

    Your staff were very helpful in my case of trying to find out why I couldn’t get close to 800GPH flow based on the head pressure curve posted on the Neptune website. It’s hard for people to look at the chart and expect certain flow. My Red Sea is less than 5ft of rise and 3 ft of horizontal pipe, 3x 90s and the 1” flow sensor. (Yes there are also the unions on the flow sensor. But the chart would suggest I have close to 13ft of head.

    I think what Reef Octopus did with saying their pump are not rated for head pressure basically made people realize not to expect too much.

    The surprise for me was cor15 and cor20 being 1500 and 2000GPH pumps but only have 30GPH difference in flow in real world application like Red Sea reefers. I think that makes the cor15 the better choice for most. I prefer cor20s redundancy for apex failure. Between cor20 on ups and vortech pumps on battery backup I sleep easier at night.

    I guess my wish list for Neptune would be full integration with Abyzz or an abyzz level pump from Neptune! We would definitely pay for something like that!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  21. #21
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by XLOR8T View Post
    The Red Sea was design around being silent. Not 10x turn over that people are seeking for Triton. And there are lots of successful triton systems with 4-5x turn over. The valve is on the drain and it’s not affecting flow. The bottleneck is the return nozzle at the end which is a bit smaller than 3/4. I’ve seen an abyzz pump running 1000GPH on a Red Sea 525xl 110g display 30g sump and it works fine. But yes big price difference.

    The only more capable DC pumps are L1 and and maybe varios 8 but as you said. They are not getting abyzz level flow.

    Your staff were very helpful in my case of trying to find out why I couldn’t get close to 800GPH flow based on the head pressure curve posted on the Neptune website. It’s hard for people to look at the chart and expect certain flow. My Red Sea is less than 5ft of rise and 3 ft of horizontal pipe, 3x 90s and the 1” flow sensor. (Yes there are also the unions on the flow sensor. But the chart would suggest I have close to 13ft of head.

    I think what Reef Octopus did with saying their pump are not rated for head pressure basically made people realize not to expect too much.

    The surprise for me was cor15 and cor20 being 1500 and 2000GPH pumps but only have 30GPH difference in flow in real world application like Red Sea reefers. I think that makes the cor15 the better choice for most. I prefer cor20s redundancy for apex failure. Between cor20 on ups and vortech pumps on battery backup I sleep easier at night.

    I guess my wish list for Neptune would be full integration with Abyzz or an abyzz level pump from Neptune! We would definitely pay for something like that!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Agreed, I am not bashing the pump either. It's the reality of the situation. Even had I gone with 1.5 inch pipe in my manifold, the bottle neck is the internal return plumbing that comes with the red sea reefer. I too have a similar setup. less than a 3 foot manifold, two 90's and the tandem 45's I mentioned with a 1 inch flow meter. I top out at 500 with my reactors closed. I am running a triton like system but not using a refugium and instead a Pax Bellum. I think the 10X turnover is to keep the detritus off the algae in the refugium. Running an algae reactor instead, I think 4-5X turnover is fine. Like I said, I'm going with it for now, if I run into problems then I will save the pennies for the Abyzz.

  22. #22
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    113
    I wanted to give everyone an update on this. I replaced my 1 inch plumbing with 1.25” as described in my original post and I am getting 681 GPH with the COR 20 at 80%. I am getting the same flow using half the power my previous DC pump was using. I am very happy I did the upgrade!

  23. #23
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    113
    An additional update. I removed the 3/4" Loc Line and now I'm getting 734 GPH! I can't believe how much flow really is restricted by Loc Line. Now I have to find black PVC so it's not visible in the tank

  24. #24
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by stre1026 View Post
    An additional update. I removed the 3/4" Loc Line and now I'm getting 734 GPH! I can't believe how much flow really is restricted by Loc Line. Now I have to find black PVC so it's not visible in the tank
    How long was the loc line that you removed?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #25
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by XLOR8T View Post
    How long was the loc line that you removed?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    About 6 links long with a 3" flare on the end. It was all 3/4.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •