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Thread: HELP programing heater to only turn on when feed mode activated.

  1. #1
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    HELP programing heater to only turn on when feed mode activated.

    I have a 50 gallon saltwater mixing bin and I am trying to program the heater for it. This is an apex jr and it is not connected to fusion 24/7. I run a cable to it for programing via fusion and disconnect the cable afterwards. I rely on the feed buttons for control.

    What I am trying to do is have the heater turned off except when a feed mode is activated. All feed modes are set for 4 hours. When the feed mode is activated I want the heater to turn on but only if the temp is below 76.5 and I want it to turn off when the temp hits 77.0. After the feed mode is over the heater should turn permanently off until I activate the feed mode again in preparation for my next water change. Is this possible, and if so how would I program it?

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    This is what I have come up with so far. Will this work, or should it be different?

    Set OFF
    Fallback OFF
    If FeedA 000 Then ON
    If FeedB 000 Then ON
    If FeedC 000 Then ON
    If FeedD 000 Then ON
    If Tmp < 76.5 Then ON
    If Tmp > 77.0 Then OFF

  3. #3
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salinity View Post
    This is what I have come up with so far. Will this work, or should it be different?

    Set OFF
    Fallback OFF
    If FeedA 000 Then ON
    If FeedB 000 Then ON
    If FeedC 000 Then ON
    If FeedD 000 Then ON
    If Tmp < 76.5 Then ON
    If Tmp > 77.0 Then OFF
    You need to use a virtual outlet.

    AnyFeed
    Set OFF
    If FeedA 000 Then ON
    If FeedB 000 Then ON
    If FeedC 000 Then ON
    If FeedD 000 Then ON

    Actual Heater
    Fallback OFF
    If Tmp < 76.5 Then ON
    If Tmp > 77.0 Then OFF
    If Output AnyFeed = OFF Then OFF


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  4. #4
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Instead of the additional complexity of a VO, you could do this:

    Set OFF
    Fallback OFF
    If FeedA 000 Then ON
    If FeedB 000 Then ON
    If FeedC 000 Then ON
    If FeedD 000 Then ON
    If Tmp > 77.0 Then OFF
    Defer 5:00 Then OFF

    This does away with using a temperature range, and instead uses a Defer to get some hysteresis.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Instead of the additional complexity of a VO, you could do this:

    Set OFF
    Fallback OFF
    If FeedA 000 Then ON
    If FeedB 000 Then ON
    If FeedC 000 Then ON
    If FeedD 000 Then ON
    If Tmp > 77.0 Then OFF
    Defer 5:00 Then OFF

    This does away with using a temperature range, and instead uses a Defer to get some hysteresis.
    I like them both. Thanks guys for the help. But RussM can you explain what the Defer and hysteresis is? I mean I understand the rest of the program up until the Defer 5:00 Then OFF.

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salinity View Post
    I like them both. Thanks guys for the help. But RussM can you explain what the Defer and hysteresis is? I mean I understand the rest of the program up until the Defer 5:00 Then OFF.
    The defer means stay on while temp is less than 77.0 degrees and stay on an additional 5 minutes after the temp reaches 77.1 degrees.

    Hysteresis is the technical term for what the heater in your house does. Turning ON below 76.5 and staying ON until reaching 77.1 and then staying OFF until below 76.5 again and repeating the cycle. The entire cycle is known as hysteresis


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  7. #7
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    So if i removed the defer statement then the heater should come on when feed mode is activated if temp is below 77.0 and it should shut off at 77.1 meaning it would continuously cycle on and off.

    The defer is simply telling the heater to stay on for 5 minutes after temp reaches 77.1 Which would heat the water past 77.1 and then once it drops back down to below 77.0 it would turn on again, until 77.1 + 5 min.

    I got this right?

  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salinity View Post
    So if i removed the defer statement then the heater should come on when feed mode is activated if temp is below 77.0 and it should shut off at 77.1 meaning it would continuously cycle on and off.

    The defer is simply telling the heater to stay on for 5 minutes after temp reaches 77.1 Which would heat the water past 77.1 and then once it drops back down to below 77.0 it would turn on again, until 77.1 + 5 min.

    I got this right?
    Correct. It would probably be worthwhile to also add a

    Min Time 005:00 Then OFF

    Which ensures that the heater stays off for at least 5 minutes too so it even further prevents short cycling.

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  9. #9
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post

    Hysteresis is the technical term for what the heater in your house does. Turning ON below 76.5 and staying ON until reaching 77.1 and then staying OFF until below 76.5 again and repeating the cycle. The entire cycle is known as hysteresis
    I'm a bit of a word nerd, so I apologize in advance for splitting hairs. What you describe is just a control range. Hysteresis is more generally a lag in response to a cause/stimulus. It often also includes an element of unusual/unexpected behavior based on the systems previous state. The word shares commonality to 'hysterical' and 'hysterectomy'.

    So, to the OP, the Defer is introducing a lag or delay.

  10. #10
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    I'm a bit of a word nerd, so I apologize in advance for splitting hairs. What you describe is just a control range. Hysteresis is more generally a lag in response to a cause/stimulus. It often also includes an element of unusual/unexpected behavior based on the systems previous state. The word shares commonality to 'hysterical' and 'hysterectomy'.

    So, to the OP, the Defer is introducing a lag or delay.
    Not as used in engineering. In an engineering sense hysteresis means that the response if different (not lagging) depending on the initial state and direction. A Sawtooth waveform (which is what happens with typical heater control) is hysteresis.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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